Full Version: Acrylic and Glass Samples
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1]
7 Feb 2007
To: ALL
Mick's sample was on acrylic, showing an image without an opaque white backing and one with a white vinyl backing.
The example without a backing showed good strength of colors and I was unable to scratch the image off with my fingernail. Naturally, the image backed with vinyl was quite opaque and impervious to a scratch test.
Al sent both an acrylic and a glass sample. Both images stood up to the fingernail test.
The image was very opaque, on both pieces, due to the white toner used in the process.
Those are my initial thoughts on the samples that were sent.
As I stated earlier, very impressive. :-)
EDITED: 7 Feb 2007 by DGL
From: Dee (DEENA-ONLY) [#2]
7 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1] 7 Feb 2007
Dee
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#3]
7 Feb 2007
To: Dee (DEENA-ONLY) [#2] 8 Feb 2007
Would you please report on what you see and think of it.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#4]
7 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3] 8 Feb 2007
Given that I use the Magic Touch system with a Panasonic laser printer I'm interested in knowing whether the new toner is better or the paper.
The problem with the Magic Touch/Panasonic is the fragility of the finish. It shouldn't be used for anything that will be handled. It's good for plaques and T-shirts but not name tags or mugs.
Mick Eminger sent me some very impressive samples of name tags and I believe also a tile. The color was good and the finish was tough.
Changing paper suppliers is easy but I suspect that there is a toner issue here and changing printers is not so easy considering the investment I have in the Panasonic.
Can anybody shed more light on this?
From: Dee (DEENA-ONLY) [#5]
8 Feb 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#3] 8 Feb 2007
Yes we will.
Dee
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#6]
8 Feb 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#4] 8 Feb 2007
Mick has mentioned that the Oki laser printer toner sticks better than the Konica/Minolta toner. I do not remember Panasonic being mentioned.
His samples do stick a little better than what I get, (K/M). Mine are sufficient at the moment except on glass and useless on uncoated metals. The black definitely has a little less stick than the colors.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#7]
8 Feb 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#4] 8 Feb 2007
There are a few variables that play into the durability of a printed image.
As Harvey points out, a difference of toners is one.
As you've noticed, some substrates lend themselves to longevity and durability of an image, better than others.
Some substrates (i.e. tiles) have to be post-baked, in order to make an image more durable.
I'm not sure how much different the papers used in the OEM laser toner process are, or how crucial they are to the durability of an image.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#8]
8 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#7] 8 Feb 2007
I was pretty sure that it would be a toner issue rather than paper.
With the prices of the new printers I guess I'll be looking at that option instead of replenishing toners.
That smarts, I have about $2600 in my printer counting the new $480 fuser I bought a few months ago.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#9]
8 Feb 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#8] 8 Feb 2007
The good news is, the price of printers has dropped considerably. :-)
The bad news is, that didn't happen before you bought the Panasonic. :'-(
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#10]
8 Feb 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#8] 8 Feb 2007
When I run out of toner in my Konica/,Minolta I will probably buy an Oki. At about $300 it is sort of close to new toner carts.
I trashed my HP monochrome laser printer because it needed a new fuser. The Sharp was far less than the fuser alone. It also is an awesome scanner, and can copy 30 pages automatically.
So far I have run through over a case pf paper with one toner refill and it is still chugging away.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#11]
8 Feb 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#10] 8 Feb 2007
A friend of mine needs a drum kit for his HP 4500.
I was always under the impression that it was a costly component.
That was, until he showed me that you can buy them on ebay, brand new, in the box, for about $45.
Could be the same scenario for an older fuser.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#12]
8 Feb 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#11] 8 Feb 2007
EDITED: 8 Feb 2007 by MIKEN
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#13]
9 Feb 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#12] 9 Feb 2007
Your bottom line will tell you that loud and clear. :-)
From: AL (SUBLIAL) [#14]
10 Feb 2007
To: ALL
In reading these posts I feel it to be necessary that the main outcome of the laser transfer is in the toner properties. The paper is either a transporter of the toner or it is a carrier with a coating.
OEM toners were not designed or enginerred for transferring onto other substrates but to be printed onto paper. There are about 8 ingredients that go into making up the toner. If you are making a toner for transferring with heat onto various substrates then you will use different ingredients to just print onto paper.
I did printing for the apparel industry using the CLC 500,s when they first came onto the market for $40,000.00 each.
I tried other copiers from various manufactures using the same paper and pressed them to see which copier gave me the best results for wash performance and color management. I was amazed in the difference of the wash performance between these manufactures copiers. That is when I knew the main difference was in the toners and not the paper.
All of these printers are good printers for the purpose they were intended for but when you change the application as much as heat transferring then you have a totally different printer.
If you have a special ink or toner developed for a spscific printer to do heat transfers then you will have a more successful application with that printer.
Is there anyone here who can remember a color copier called the color one made by a french company that also made the Kis 1 hour photo processor?
That copier was a chemical photo type copier and it made beautiful color transparencies. We use to laminate these onto metal, glass, and acrylic in full color. This copier goes back about 33 years and look where we are today with transferring color onto these same substrates.
I am sorry for making such a large post. just wanted to share some of mt experiences and thoughts with you all.
AL La costa
www.atttransfer.com
1-866-900-2830 toll free
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#15]
10 Feb 2007
To: AL (SUBLIAL) [#14] 10 Feb 2007
Al,
In the transfer of toner to various substrates, (i.e. glass, acrylic, wood, metal) is there more than one kind of paper used?
I believe there are. One for soft goods (fabric) and one for hard goods (acrylic,metal).
A carrier with a coating, is what I assume is being used for tranfer of toner to acrylic and glass.
I say that, because some pieces of acrylic I've seen, show (very faintly) a minute dot pattern, in areas outside of the actual image area.
It would seem that a paper which acted as a transfer of toner as opposed to a carrier with a coating wouldn't show those marks and would be preferrable.
EDITED: 10 Feb 2007 by DGL
From: AL (SUBLIAL) [#16]
10 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#15] 10 Feb 2007
David, On soft goods there is normally a coating on the paper to transfer to 50/50 and 100% cotton. We use to make a coating to spray on the shirt or transfer and a release paper to just release the coatings to it. Had a very soft hand and no staining outside of the print area.
The hard goods paper doesn,t have any coating on it nor does the paper for white toner to dark apparel.
The splatter affect you see outside of the print area of a print is usually 2 things. Some of the newer printers has some backgrounding. It is mostly caused by the LED or laser seeing the coating on the paper. It won,t do that with bond paper.
The other cause is the older sub. printers such as the HP,s have a ironoxides in it and that causes the problem.
We found a paper that eliminates backgrounding. It is glossy so go figure that one out.
Wood can be sublimated onto without a carrier or with and it depends on the look you want to achieve or how easy you want the job to go. The easier method is with a paper coating.
AL La costa
www.atttransfer.com
1-866-900-2830
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#17]
10 Feb 2007
To: AL (SUBLIAL) [#16] 10 Feb 2007
Very informative.
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#18]
10 Feb 2007
To: AL (SUBLIAL) [#16] 10 Feb 2007
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#19]
10 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1] 10 Feb 2007
David...were Al's samples of OEM laser as you stated or of sublimation toner?
If sublimation toner, I just don't get it. One still has to use coated substrate, buy special sublimation toner and the results are no better than the much less expensive oem laser process using uncoated substrate...just don't get it!
Doug
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#20]
10 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#7] 10 Feb 2007
David...not all tiles need be post baked in the oem laser transfer process...just those that have been glazed and fired. I use bisque tile and find that I do not have to post bake.
Doug
EDITED: 10 Feb 2007 by JDOUG5170
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