Full Version: Acrylic and Glass Samples
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#12]
8 Feb 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#11] 8 Feb 2007
EDITED: 8 Feb 2007 by MIKEN
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#13]
9 Feb 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#12] 9 Feb 2007
Your bottom line will tell you that loud and clear. :-)
From: AL (SUBLIAL) [#14]
10 Feb 2007
To: ALL
In reading these posts I feel it to be necessary that the main outcome of the laser transfer is in the toner properties. The paper is either a transporter of the toner or it is a carrier with a coating.
OEM toners were not designed or enginerred for transferring onto other substrates but to be printed onto paper. There are about 8 ingredients that go into making up the toner. If you are making a toner for transferring with heat onto various substrates then you will use different ingredients to just print onto paper.
I did printing for the apparel industry using the CLC 500,s when they first came onto the market for $40,000.00 each.
I tried other copiers from various manufactures using the same paper and pressed them to see which copier gave me the best results for wash performance and color management. I was amazed in the difference of the wash performance between these manufactures copiers. That is when I knew the main difference was in the toners and not the paper.
All of these printers are good printers for the purpose they were intended for but when you change the application as much as heat transferring then you have a totally different printer.
If you have a special ink or toner developed for a spscific printer to do heat transfers then you will have a more successful application with that printer.
Is there anyone here who can remember a color copier called the color one made by a french company that also made the Kis 1 hour photo processor?
That copier was a chemical photo type copier and it made beautiful color transparencies. We use to laminate these onto metal, glass, and acrylic in full color. This copier goes back about 33 years and look where we are today with transferring color onto these same substrates.
I am sorry for making such a large post. just wanted to share some of mt experiences and thoughts with you all.
AL La costa
www.atttransfer.com
1-866-900-2830 toll free
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#15]
10 Feb 2007
To: AL (SUBLIAL) [#14] 10 Feb 2007
Al,
In the transfer of toner to various substrates, (i.e. glass, acrylic, wood, metal) is there more than one kind of paper used?
I believe there are. One for soft goods (fabric) and one for hard goods (acrylic,metal).
A carrier with a coating, is what I assume is being used for tranfer of toner to acrylic and glass.
I say that, because some pieces of acrylic I've seen, show (very faintly) a minute dot pattern, in areas outside of the actual image area.
It would seem that a paper which acted as a transfer of toner as opposed to a carrier with a coating wouldn't show those marks and would be preferrable.
EDITED: 10 Feb 2007 by DGL
From: AL (SUBLIAL) [#16]
10 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#15] 10 Feb 2007
David, On soft goods there is normally a coating on the paper to transfer to 50/50 and 100% cotton. We use to make a coating to spray on the shirt or transfer and a release paper to just release the coatings to it. Had a very soft hand and no staining outside of the print area.
The hard goods paper doesn,t have any coating on it nor does the paper for white toner to dark apparel.
The splatter affect you see outside of the print area of a print is usually 2 things. Some of the newer printers has some backgrounding. It is mostly caused by the LED or laser seeing the coating on the paper. It won,t do that with bond paper.
The other cause is the older sub. printers such as the HP,s have a ironoxides in it and that causes the problem.
We found a paper that eliminates backgrounding. It is glossy so go figure that one out.
Wood can be sublimated onto without a carrier or with and it depends on the look you want to achieve or how easy you want the job to go. The easier method is with a paper coating.
AL La costa
www.atttransfer.com
1-866-900-2830
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#17]
10 Feb 2007
To: AL (SUBLIAL) [#16] 10 Feb 2007
Very informative.
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#18]
10 Feb 2007
To: AL (SUBLIAL) [#16] 10 Feb 2007
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#19]
10 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1] 10 Feb 2007
David...were Al's samples of OEM laser as you stated or of sublimation toner?
If sublimation toner, I just don't get it. One still has to use coated substrate, buy special sublimation toner and the results are no better than the much less expensive oem laser process using uncoated substrate...just don't get it!
Doug
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#20]
10 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#7] 10 Feb 2007
David...not all tiles need be post baked in the oem laser transfer process...just those that have been glazed and fired. I use bisque tile and find that I do not have to post bake.
Doug
EDITED: 10 Feb 2007 by JDOUG5170
From: AL (SUBLIAL) [#21]
10 Feb 2007
To: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#19] 10 Feb 2007
Doug, The samples were made with sublimation and white toner and transferred to UNCOATED glass and acrylic.
AL La Costa
www.atttransfer.com
1-866-900-2830
From: AL (SUBLIAL) [#22]
10 Feb 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#18] 10 Feb 2007
Dave, I am not familiar with the OEM transfer process. I am familiar with the sublimation laser transfer.
AL La Costa
www.atttransfer.com
1-866-900-2830
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#23]
10 Feb 2007
To: AL (SUBLIAL) [#21] 10 Feb 2007
OK Al, then the next question is why would one want to use a higher cost sublimation toner, and white coating when not needed? Just because they have it? Or, better yet....it helps your sales (devil)
Doug
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#24]
10 Feb 2007
To: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#23] 10 Feb 2007
Doug,
One reason for Al's using sublimation toner may be that a white toner isn't available in OEM toner.
I don't know. That's my guess.
Thanks for the clarification on the post-bake issue with tiles, in stating that bisque tiles don't require post-baking.
EDITED: 10 Feb 2007 by DGL
From: AL (SUBLIAL) [#25]
10 Feb 2007
To: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#23] 10 Feb 2007
Doug, It is on uncoated glass and acrylic with a white opaque backing on the print area. The OEM toner isn,t less expensive per print then laser sublimation.
David Requested some samples from me and I sent them to him.
This thread isn,t for sales but should be educational. It is as educational to me as to the members to know what products like glass and acrylics can be embellished in color by different processes.
I look forward to see the different processes at the ARA show in Vegas.
AL La Costa
www.atttransfer.com
1-866-900-2830
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#26]
10 Feb 2007
To: AL (SUBLIAL) [#25] 10 Feb 2007
When you say:
Is that referring to a white toner backing, or a piece of white vinyl backing applied separately?
From: AL (SUBLIAL) [#27]
10 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#26] 10 Feb 2007
Dave, It is a white opaque toner backing. It is all transferred as one transfer.
AL La Costa
www.atttransfer.com
1-866-900-2830
From: Mick [#28]
10 Feb 2007
To: AL (SUBLIAL) [#27] 11 Feb 2007
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#29]
10 Feb 2007
To: AL (SUBLIAL) [#27] 11 Feb 2007
Al,
Is the white opaque toner applied to the transfer paper, before the color image is added in a subsequent pass?
I think I read a brief overview of your process and that's how it worked.
EDITED: 10 Feb 2007 by DGL
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#30]
10 Feb 2007
To: AL (SUBLIAL) [#25] 11 Feb 2007
Al, I fully agree that this thread is to be educational and I'm attempting to keep it that way. But, along with learning the methods used and the proper technique names it is important that they know the comparative costs.
I can't speak for the price of sublimation toner compared to OEM toner and I am surprised that you are saying that using the white base toner and the sub toner is equal or less expensive, especially when you consider the extra time to lay down the white on the transfer paper (consider the extra time to either change out the toner carts, or the expense of a second printer).
Interesting, went to a site that sells sublimation laser toner and a white solution to do a comparison of prices...none were listed. Guess I'll have to take your word for it Al.
Doug
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#31]
10 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#29] 10 Feb 2007
David, that is as I understand the process.
It is also important to point out that you must either change out the white carts for the sub toner carts or run two separate lasers.
Now, fair is fair. With OEM laser toner to acrylic or glass, after the transfer is done, we do either have to paint over the transfer or lay a vinyl material down to bring out the colors.
Doug
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