Full Version: Acrylic and Glass Samples
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#32]
10 Feb 2007
To: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#31] 10 Feb 2007
In the overview of the sublimation (white toner) process I read, there was no attempt to obfuscate the fact that the process is neither automatic or something anyone can do, without experiencing a learning curve.
Very few processes differ in that regard.
The hassle-factor of changing toner cartridges can certainly take the fun out of producing one-offs, but in a production run, the transition wouldn't represent a huge inconvenience.
Also, when you consider how the cost of color laser printers has dropped, in recent years, running two printers may be an affordable solution, in lowering the hassle-factor.
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#33]
10 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#32] 10 Feb 2007
David, nor did I read into the post any effort to "obfuscate"...sheesh.
What I did read is that sublimation (white toner) process is no more costly than OEM laser process....I seriously doubt this and, I challenge Al to put up the numbers to substantiate it.
Doug
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#34]
10 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#32] 10 Feb 2007
To answer the question about backgrounding spots. I get that with the Konica. I would say that it is just a bit extra toner splatter, but it is in a very definite pattern. It appears to be mostly yellow. Maybe it is a color correction bug.
It is so faint that you can give one or two quick wipes with lighter fluid to remove them. Lighter fluid will slowly dissolve the toner, but gets rid of the backgrounding fast without seeming to affect image.
I have no idea if the Oki gives the same results.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#35]
10 Feb 2007
To: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#33] 11 Feb 2007
Doug,
I agree that the numbers will substantiate (or nullify) Al's statement.
Overall, maybe I'm overly-sensitive to the fact that whenever something new comes along, (that people either don't understand or think is impossible), the first course of action, by many, is to shoot it down, as being smoke and mirrors, (vaporware), too costly or completely unviable.
It's usually the same people who have never seen results of the process or met the people behind it.
Personally, I've learned my lesson, in being one of the original naysayers of the Atomic Art process (and then being proven wrong) and I've seen Al taken to task, (on other forums) by those falling just short of calling him a snake oil salesman or a shameless pitch man.
The tangible samples in front of me, say the process is not only possible but viable.
EDITED: 10 Feb 2007 by DGL
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#36]
11 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#35] 11 Feb 2007
David, I have said my piece on this topic and rather than continue to beat the dead horse, I will now back out and watch and see how it all works itself out.
I hopefully have given folks interested in both technologies, food for thought, and that the same careful decision making process one would use before signing up for AtomicArt will be used in laser transfer applications.
But, of course, I can't leave without one last comment. I will believe much more so when AtomicArt can demonstrate their process in a open forum such as a ARA show, When Al can demonstrate his white process in the same open forum. If either of these two processes were being demonstrated, perhaps I'd found some value in attending the show. I did travel to Mick's several years ago to see his process in person. Further more, when I hear from bonafide users of different technologies that they have been able to purchase the product and tell of their experiences...that will help also.
Doug
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#37]
11 Feb 2007
To: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#36] 11 Feb 2007
I don't think we have any points of disagreement.
I agree that live/taped demos will ultimately dispell (or confirm) the viability of any process.
It's also true that reports from actual users of a process, (as opposed to proponents, such as myself, who base their opinions on physical samples), will carry more weight, in helping people decide if a given process is something they want to become involved with.
It's also true that when a person refuses to answer a direct and valid question about their process (short of revealing trade secrets) people are left to draw (or imagine) their own conclusions, which doesn't inspire confidence.
In that case, silence isn't golden. :|
From: AL (SUBLIAL) [#38]
12 Feb 2007
To: Mick [#28] 12 Feb 2007
Hi Mick, The OEM toner muted into the white tone. Your question is the opposite from how we normally do this when printing onto something from the front. That is we print the color first and then the white on top.
When want to transfer from the backside of a acrylic or crystal award we print the white first and then the color. I haven,t tried that with OEM but now I will and get that info. to you.
Mick, Call me as I would like to try your papers with this process.
AL La Costa
www.atttransfer.com
1-866-900-2830
From: AL (SUBLIAL) [#39]
12 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#29] 12 Feb 2007
David, Yes the white toner is put on after the color toner for printing onto the font of substrates like mirrors, trophy plaques, and dark acrylics.
We do it in reverse to transfer onto the backsde of Crystal and acrylics.
AL La costa
www.atttransfer.com
1-866-900-2830
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#40]
12 Feb 2007
To: AL (SUBLIAL) [#39] 12 Feb 2007
Thank you Al. Makes sense.
Your statement, as to sublimation toner being no less expensive than OEM toner, is still up in the air.
Any comment on that?
EDITED: 12 Feb 2007 by DGL
From: AL (SUBLIAL) [#41]
12 Feb 2007
To: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#30] 12 Feb 2007
Doug, I am sorry if I mis lead you on thinking that sublimation toners and the white toners together are less costly then OEM toner because that is not the case.
I meant that sublimation toner per print cost is less then OEM toner per print cost.
Personally I don,t have a clue on the print cost of the white toner and don,t know how to do a yield test to determine the cost as yet.
AL La Costa
www.atttransfer.com
1-866-900-2830
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#42]
12 Feb 2007
To: AL (SUBLIAL) [#41] 12 Feb 2007
I have read your statement and will not comment. Tired!
Doug
From: Bill (ALBILLBERT2000) [#43]
13 Feb 2007
To: Dee (DEENA-ONLY) [#2] 13 Feb 2007
From: Dee (DEENA-ONLY) [#44]
13 Feb 2007
To: Bill (ALBILLBERT2000) [#43] 13 Feb 2007
Hi Bill,
I don't know if there is a branch in PA. You could try calling ARA & asking. If not why not try to start one. I don't know why you would not be welcome at the NJ meeting. I know that people from NY are on the email list. Let me know if you are interested in coming & I will email you directions.
Dee
From: Bill (ALBILLBERT2000) [#45]
13 Feb 2007
To: Dee (DEENA-ONLY) [#44] 14 Feb 2007
From: AL (SUBLIAL) [#46]
13 Feb 2007
To: Dee (DEENA-ONLY) [#44] 14 Feb 2007
Dee, Will you please e-mail me directions.
AL La Costa
www.atttransfer.com
1-866-900-2830
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#47]
14 Feb 2007
To: Bill (ALBILLBERT2000) [#45] 14 Feb 2007
Here's the thread regarding the NJ ARA Branch meeting:
http://engravingetc.org/forum/index.php?webtag=EE&msg=5885.1
It's also listed on our events calendar.
From: Dee (DEENA-ONLY) [#48]
14 Feb 2007
To: AL (SUBLIAL) [#46] 14 Feb 2007
Al,
I sent you an email via the forum.
Dee
From: Button (LASERCHICK) [#49]
15 Feb 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#10] 15 Feb 2007
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#50]
15 Feb 2007
To: Button (LASERCHICK) [#49] 15 Feb 2007
Mick mentioned the CS?3200 for about $300. Someone else told me that the current model is the 3400 also about $300.
My Konica/Minolta is a great printer for paper and transfer, but I have seen Mick's work with the Oki and the adherence is superior to the Konica. (His paper is darned good also.)
From: Mick [#51]
15 Feb 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#50] 15 Feb 2007
Harvey,
The new Konica-Minolta printers that use new toner technology (magicolor 2530DL) are great for all substrates other than glazed ceramics that need to be post baked. I use mine for everything other than the glazed tiles now. Really good on acrylics and other plastics.
Mick
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