Full Version: New to this business
From: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#1]
10 Feb 2007
To: ALL
I am purchasing a Epilog laser Helix 24--35 watt. My question is this--is 35 watts enough power to engrave photo's in black granite? Is the software "PhotograV" the correct software? I have CorelDraw & Paint.
First time here, and new to this business. Thanks for any help.
EDITED: 10 Feb 2007 by DGL
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#2]
10 Feb 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#1] 10 Feb 2007
Mike,
35 watts is plenty for engraving photos on black granite and marble. Don't limit the potential of the machine on that one product.
PhotograV is the best software tool for speeding up the image manipulation process. It's a one-time investment that will pay you back in saved time.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3]
10 Feb 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#1] 10 Feb 2007
35 watts is plenty of power for engraving photos on granite.
PhotoGraV is a popular program for (easily) adjusting photos for laser engraving, although it's not completely necessary, if you have a strong command of manipulating photos in Photopaint.
From: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#4]
10 Feb 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#1] 10 Feb 2007
Mikey,
I have the Epilog Legend 24TT 35W, and it does beautiful work on black marble. I forget the exact settings (not at the shop right now), but for photos we run about 80% speed & 40% power....or something like that. I'd post some pics here for you to see, but they never do the actual product justice.
Will you be joining us at the ARA show in Vegas this month?
Cody
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#5]
10 Feb 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#1] 10 Feb 2007
Below is one I posted a while back that was done on my 30-watt Epilog.
From: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#6]
11 Feb 2007
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#5] 11 Feb 2007
Dave:
Thanks for the reply. I'm just a little nervous as this is new to me and an expensive undertaking. I hope I can lean on you guys a bit when the machine arrives. Thanks!
Mike
From: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#7]
11 Feb 2007
To: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#4] 11 Feb 2007
Cody:
Thanks for your help. Don't think I'll be in Vegas this year. My plan is to have my space ready by Feb 19. Exhaust pipe, wiring, new computer in place, scanner, etc. The machine is due here the last week of Feb. My plan is to have things up and running by the first week in April. I don't know if this is possible, but that is the goal. I also run a floor covering business out of another location about 25 miles from here. As luck would have it, there is a huge job I've been working on for the last year that could pop this month--it will tie up my work force for about 18 months. Vegas? "Maybe next year" (Kinda like our Cubs--or more recently, our Bears)
Thanks again,
Mike
From: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#8]
11 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3] 11 Feb 2007
Dave:
Thank you for your reply. I'm not all that familiar with how this site works--i.e., reply to messages, email, etc. Several years back I worked for an imaging studio, a very large one, Motorola and United Airlines were a couple of my clients. I was fair with manipulating images in PhotoShop 5. It's been 4-5 years. I am going to purchse PhotograV. It appears that the 395.00 price tag is firm. Any ideas, or do I just pay the piper? CorelDraw & CorelPaint also have been recommended to me. Are these the software of choice, or would you recommend another? They are relativley cheap on ShopZilla.
I plan on setting up shop by Feb 19--wire, exhaust, computer, etc. The machine will arrive last week of Feb. I hope to have bugs worked out and be up an running by Apr 1. Does this sound reasonable?
I don't want to limit my machine to stone, however, stone has been my life. I recently completed a massive granite mosaic for the city of Olympia, WA. It is on the 4th Av bridge, walkways and overlooks.
I have plenty of other ideas and a friend of ours (my wife & I) is a stained glass artist who wants to help the start up, she has lots of ideas. I would appreciate any ideas you have for a start up co. like mine that would help generate fast cash.
Thanks again for your time, I look forward to your input.
Best regards,
Mike
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#9]
11 Feb 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#6] 11 Feb 2007
Mike,
We'll be here for you, but I would hope most importantly that you'd be able to lean most on the support of the distributor you bought the machine from. They should be able to offer a wealth of information.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#10]
11 Feb 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#8] 11 Feb 2007
It is difficult to make a living in the awards and engraving industry being one dimensional. You will eventually need to invest in other marking technologies to take your business to the next level.
You really should have had a formal plan before you made your first investment. Did you do any market research to determine the potential demand for your service?
Do you have a vision of what you would like your company to look like in 5-10-20-50 years?
What are you going to offer that is unique, that will set your business apart from the tens of thousands of other CO2 laser owners?
Will you operate out of a commercial storefront or your home? If you are operating out of the home, are you prepared to invest the greater time and/or money it takes to get the word out about your service versus that from a commercial storefront?
Don't read into my questions here, I am simply trying to get you off on the right step. From the little I know, it sounds like you are taking the buy-it-and-they-will-come approach. A steady flow of used laser engravers are on the market from people who have taken that same approach.
You've made a good decision by coming to this forum to do some homework. You'll get many perspectives on markets to approach, but it still takes an aggressive plan to build those markets over time. As I said earlier, NO FAST CASH!
EDITED: 11 Feb 2007 by DATAKES
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#11]
11 Feb 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#8] 11 Feb 2007
We're here to answer any questions in that regard. The developers of the forum software work on a volunteer basis and are quicker to make improvements, than to provide up-to-date documentation.
Not complaining. It's just the reality.
With that in mind, we plan to develop a series of forum navigation and feature video demos.
Here's an example of how to attach an image or file to a forum post:
http://engravingetc.org/Harvey/upload/2405Attachments.mov
If your Photoshop skills are latent, PhotoGraV will probably be a worthy investment.
At the bottom of the order form, you'll notice a 30-day money-back offer.
http://www.photograv.com/pgorder.html
Other than being less expensive than Adobe CS2 (which includes Illustrator and Photoshop) you'll find more people here are familiar with and able to help you with CorelDraw and CorelPaint, than other graphics programs.
Draw and Paint are the most widely used graphics programs in the awards and engraving industry, for applications from ranging from sublimation to creating artwork for sandcarving, to laser engraving and more.
Up and running in what sense?
You should be up and running as far as functionality, but your ability to create a saleable product (based on what you've told us) will rely on your command of graphics programs and an understanding of your laser machine.
Your success wil also hinge on your ability to get your product(s) before a receptive audience (marketing).
This person may be impressed in the advances made in the areas of applying color graphics to glass and ceramics through the combination of your laser machine and a compound called Thermark.
David Takes covered the "fast cash" portion of your question. :-)
Natural stone, ceramics and glass seem to be where your interest lies. If you plan to make that your niche, my advice is to become "the" expert in those areas and find ways to improve upon the ideas of others, or leave them in the dust by developing areas where they either can't or won't want to follow.
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#12]
11 Feb 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#8] 12 Feb 2007
If you buy a color inkjet printer and connect it to a computer you'll be getting nice looking prints right away. You just need to learn the differences between "draft" mode, "photo" mode and a few other things that affect image quality.
Not so with a laser engraver.
The process is similar (conect it to the computer and print from a graphics program), but there are a lot of variables with a laser engraver. The materials vary from one source to another. The power of your laser vs the speed and power settings you use in the driver. The dpi settings in the driver vs the ppi of the source images. And on and on...
Using a laser engraver requires more skill and experimentation than a normal graphics printer like an inkjet or laser printer.
A program like Corel has a learning curve. So does Photograv. It has an auto mode, but the best results come from using the interactive mode and a lot of experimentation. The laser itself has a learning curve, and each material you use has it's own learning curve on the laser.
You may have the system set up and debugged fairly quickly after receiving the laser, but don't expect to be churning out perfect results without putting in some time learning and experimenting.
When I set up my laser I was able to get some interesting results the first day. But it took weeks of experimenting before I really understood the materials and software well enough to get predictable results every time.
People here can guide you with tips and techniques for different materials and ways to improve quality. But you'll still need to experiment and tweak it all to match your specific laser and your needed results.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#13]
11 Feb 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#6] 12 Feb 2007
Mike
I can speak from personal experience that you can lean on us as hard as you need to. I still consider myself a newbie and the folks on this forum have been nothing short of tremendous.
So lean away! We are happy to help you get THERE! ( where ever there is. I think "there" is where "they" live) { insert laugh here)
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#14]
11 Feb 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#7] 12 Feb 2007
Mike,
Selling or installing? A good friend of mine is a carpet layer. I understand floors. ( insert laugh here)
From: Mike (MIKEHUNTER) [#15]
11 Feb 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#1] 12 Feb 2007
Mike
It is not clear whether you want to add value to your stones, or have a go at anything/everything.
When I got my machine (a cold January), I decided to hire a stand at an Easter craft show. In that February and March, I learnt as much about laser engraving and Corel as I would have in two years of handling normal enquiries. I tried all sorts of materials, designs and techniques over the two months and that has really set me up.
(I sold about half my stock at the show, but much more importantly, I made contact with two industrial customers who have provided a large part of my income ever since).
Depending on how much time you can commit to learning both the machine and the software, your April target is perfectly possible.
Good Luck !
From: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#16]
12 Feb 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#14] 12 Feb 2007
Chuck:
I still can install with the best--learned Marble, Tile, Terrazzo from father. Have been in high end stone work most of my life. I did install a large mud job last month, but try to refrain from doing the hands on--it kills me, I'm 58 and in good shape but belive me thousands of pounds of sand n cement n tile and on da knees 8 hrs, hurts.
Insert laugh here.
Mike
From: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#17]
12 Feb 2007
To: Mike (MIKEHUNTER) [#15] 13 Feb 2007
Mike:
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I think industry and the architectural market will pan out well.
Mike
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#18]
12 Feb 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#16] 13 Feb 2007
Mike, I understand. My friend Gary is 67 and STILL laying carpet....mostly because his wife won't quit spending money or work and he won't put his foot down...but that is another story.
Have you considered tile murals as a possible endeavor? It can be quite lucrative and it seems you will have the connections in place already.
From: Ray (STAMP) [#19]
13 Feb 2007
To: Mike (MIKEHUNTER) [#15] 13 Feb 2007
Hi Mike,
First hi to everyone on the forum from a newbie..
I'm a pre owner of a engraving store meaning that i'm in the research
process right now.I suscribe to the engraver journal, i call company for info on their product and prices and i Google 8 hours a day with my partner and still i can't decide witch laser i should get. Help
I live in a small town but beside a military base so the potential is there.
There is 1 engraver in town equiped with a old rotary and don't seem to do much for trophy and award.
buttom line what can u help me with, and what laser should go for???
i look at epilog,laserpro,xenetech and vision..oh forgot trotec who seem to have a co2 and yag on the same system..
For rotary is vision max pro or xenetech better?????
I want as many opinion that i can get.
Ray
From: Mike (MIKEHUNTER) [#20]
13 Feb 2007
To: Ray (STAMP) [#19] 13 Feb 2007
Choosing the machine is difficult because you have to live with the results for a long time.
I have an Epilog (chosen after much deliberation) which has aspects that I am not totally happy with after 2+ year's use. This is at least in part because of over-high expectations on my part (which, of course, the dealers I spoke to did nothing to dash).
I suspect that the same would be true if I had bought ANY of the other big-name machines. They are all very similar, but all have their own strengths, weaknesses and foibles.
It has been said on this forum many many times - Choose the machine on the basis of the dealer and manufacturer backup that you can expect, not on the brand name.
All the dealers will appear to be very nice people (they all want your $20,000). Some really are very nice people - they pop up here and give useful advice. Others you will have to test by pestering them!
The market for machines is very competitive and so the manufacturers upgrade and change models frequently. This means that the research I did three years ago would be no help to you in buying a new machine this year.
One thing I would urge - stick to the well-known brands for a first machine. During the (steep) learning curve, things will go wrong (or at least appear to). If you have confidence in the machine, then you know where to start solving the problem(s). If you are not sure of the machine, then problems get out of hand because they could be anywhere.
EDIT - Just to make it clear: if I needed to buy another machine, it would probably be an Epilog, though I would take the opportunity to check out the latest models from the competition too.
EDITED: 13 Feb 2007 by MIKEHUNTER
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