Full Version: need rub-n-buff help

From: Lynn (LYNNDENO) [#1]
 17 Dec 2004
To: ALL

goodmorning all,
hoping someone can help me

I have lasered a wine bottled and some glasses and other things and I read on the forum somewhere about people using rub-n-buff to fill in with color. I must not be doing something right. If someone can write in and tell me how they are doing it to make it stick that would be great. I rub it on and it looks greast but then when i go to wipe off the extra it comes out of the areas I want it to stay. I can't do 2 passes to make it any deeper because it doesn't always line up. we have a epilog legend 24ex 45 watt,
we are new at this, and would appreciate any help someone has.

From: James (TILER02) [#2]
 17 Dec 2004
To: Lynn (LYNNDENO) [#1] 17 Dec 2004

If you can not make multiple passes and get the engraving to line up I would be calling Epilog.

From: Laura (ELLEMD628) [#3]
 17 Dec 2004
To: Lynn (LYNNDENO) [#1] 17 Dec 2004

Hi Lynn.

I've heard of several people having the same issue with using Rub n Buff and I don't know if I'm just lucky, but I've not had that problem. I usally run the glass at 100P 30S (or less for depth) on my 35 watt with a wet paper towel mask. I spray the finished piece with water and wipe again with a damp paper towel or cloth and then dry it off.

I apply the Rub n Buff with a Q-tip making sure to get all the etched areas. I don't let it dry for too long, generally just long enough to color fill the areas necessary and then I take a dry paper towel and rub over everything. I don't think it's ever not stuck to the engraved areas but I don't rub it very hard, just enough to get it off the unetched surface.

I tried doing a colored ceramic coffee mug and even ran it through the dishwasher and the rub n buff was still there when I took it out.

Can you get enough depth on one pass if you reduce your speed?

From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#4]
 17 Dec 2004
To: Lynn (LYNNDENO) [#1] 17 Dec 2004

I need to play with my settings more and evolve my technique, so I'm interested in what you end up doing.

On my 40W 60IPS ULS I'm doing one pass at 333LPI, 100% power and 30% speed. (My unit, VersaLaser, will only do 1,000 PPI raster.) Direct onto clean dry window type glass.

I put a dab of rub n buff on the glass and spread it around with a piece of gauze. As it starts to dry I turn the gauze over to a clean spot and and wipe it off the unlasered parts. Yes this removes some from where I want it, but some stays behind.

It looks ok when viewed with light from the front. When back lit the color is washed out.

From: Lynn (LYNNDENO) [#5]
 17 Dec 2004
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#4] 17 Dec 2004

We are using a rotary attachingment which I failed to mention the first time. If it is normal glass done flat I can do more than one pass, but on the rotary I can't seem to get it lined up because when you take the diamer times pi the numbers get rounded and it seems the laser never returns to its original home position. I called tech support about a shaking and jolting noise my machine was making and asked why I couldn't do multiple passes. After he was very rude and talked to me like I was an idiot, he told me that no one does multiple passes on glass, he had never heard of that, I asked if he had read the manual that came with the laser, becuase it suggests doing more than one pass on glass and acrylic to get a deeper effect and not get the fracturing. I usually get someone that is really nice and helpful at tech support, but not this time, I wish I rememered his name becuase if I get him again I will just ask for someone lse or hang up and call back.

From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#6]
 17 Dec 2004
To: Lynn (LYNNDENO) [#5] 17 Dec 2004

I can't explain it but on some test runs I've gotten more visible chipping when engraving glass at high speed then I've gotten at low speed. (This is with keeping the power constant. I've also gotten more chipping when the power is dropped.) When I drop the speed from 30 to 10 it takes a lot longer and engraves a lot deeper into the glass. (The top layer comes off cleanly, and it frosts nicely.) It becomes more of a time issue. I didn't mention, but I've been using the 1.5" lens. Been wanting to compare 2" lens, not had the time yet.

I've only done flat items. I don't have the rotary for my unit. (ULS crippled their rotary design for the Versa. Can't adjust it for tapered items. Not worth the price for a semi-functional product.)

Sounds like your rotary attachment can't return to a "home" position. I can't tell you if it's a design limitation or defective unit. I believe they use a stepper motor in the rotary attachment. At the end of a run it needs to back step however many rows it engraved and maintain a holding current.

From: bobkat [#7]
 17 Dec 2004
To: Lynn (LYNNDENO) [#1] 18 Dec 2004

The secret to working with RnB is to let it dry completely, and then remove the excess with a paper towel wrapped around a flat object. (Block of wood). This keeps the towel from digging out the RnB from the engraved areas. Just a dot of WD-40 makes it come of even easier. Keep moving your towel so you're wiping with a clean spot.

From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#8]
 18 Dec 2004
To: Lynn (LYNNDENO) [#7] 19 Dec 2004


I tried Bobcat's advice without the WD-40. (paper towel around wood.) It worked well, after I slowed the laser to get greater depth. I feel I'm dropping the speed to the point its close to a depth vs clarity/quality trade off.

I used several font sizes for my test run, 4 to 24 point. The speed was too slow for the 4 point text. It appears the 24 point could less speed, more depth, in a couple of spots.

In an earlier post you indicated you were having problems getting some depth, and could not do 2 passes. This may not work for you.

What are your units specifications power & speed, and what are the parameters you're currently running with Power, speed, dpi?

From: Peck.Sidara (LAOPADAK) [#9]
 20 Dec 2004
To: Lynn (LYNNDENO) [#5] 20 Dec 2004

Dear Lynn,

My name is Peck and I'm the supervisor for Epilog's tech support. I am sorry to hear about the trouble you had when working with us over the phone. I would like to know whom you were dealing with so I can take the necessary actions on our end. If you can recall the tech's name, that would be great.

Regarding the repeatability of the rotary, my first suggestion is to try repeating jobs on flat material so we can determine if there is a problem within the machine or the rotary itself. If the artwork/text shifts when using flat material then there is a problem within the machien itself. Our next step would be to find out if it's shifting left to right or top to bottom.

If the art/text does not shift when using flat material then the problem is coming from the rotary. Unfortunately with the rotary, you have the possibility of the object slipping and I think this could be the cause of the problem. There shouldn't be any issues repeating jobs using the rotary because the rotary should return to it's starting point after the job is complete.

Feel free to contact me directly at 303.215.9171 if you have any further questions or concerns.

Regards,
Peck
AKA Epitech

From: Lynn (LYNNDENO) [#10]
 20 Dec 2004
To: Peck.Sidara (LAOPADAK) [#9] 20 Dec 2004

Thank you for responding, but I can not remember the tech's name. I amable to run multiple passes on flat objects and I haven't tried recently to do multiple on the rotary. I tried 4 or 5 times when I started learning with the rotary. We haven't used it very long and are still learning. We have only had the laser since the end of august. I would run a design and then it returns to home and I tried to run another pass it started before the other previous design, so there are 2 images instead of one deep one. It could be an opperator problem and not the machine but that is my problem, I need to know which and what I might be doing wrong.
Thanks to everyone

From: Peck.Sidara (LAOPADAK) [#11]
 20 Dec 2004
To: Lynn (LYNNDENO) [#10] 20 Dec 2004

Hi Lynn,

At this point it sounds like the problem is coming from the rotary itself or the object itself. I don't think it's user error unless someone is moving the material after it is engraved and places it back thinking they could position it exactly as it was before.

There is nothing wrong with the machine if you can repeat jobs on flat materials. If there was something wrong with the machine, you would experience the same problem on both flat and rotary use.

There are a few things we need to check with the rotary. There is a set-screw that holds the rotary motor pulley in place. We need to confirm that it is tight. We also need to check the belt tension (yellow belt) located behind the rotary. We also need to check the condition of the o-rings that the objects sit on. If the o-rings are worn, that can cause the object to slip. Lastly, we need to make sure the object is heavy enough for the rotary to grip it and rotate it correctly. Sometimes if your object isn't heavy enough, it just slips.

So there you have it, we need to check all of the above. If you have any questions, again, you can call me and we'll discuss over the phone. 303.215.9171

Regards,
Peck

From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#12]
 20 Dec 2004
To: Lynn (LYNNDENO) [#10] 21 Dec 2004

Lynn,

Another thing I suggest you consider. If possible, put your engraving at the very top of the CorelDRAW page.
The less movement in the engraving process, the less likely a slip will occur. For instance, if you have a page size of 6x6 and put 2" of copy in the center of the page then the cylindrical attachment will rotate (at aggressive speed) for two inches before it starts engraving, then rotate (at aggressive speed) 4" to get back home. If you put your copy at the very top of the page then engraving starts immediately and you've reduced your aggressive motion from 6" total to 2"!

This is even more critical if you are engraving objects with significant handles(large military beer mugs, for instance) that add uneven momentum when reversing directions.

I understand that this requires a bit more "figuring" to determine the positioning of the glass when you need to put engraving at a specific location on the circumference, but for most glasses that doesn't matter and this will be your best solution to reduce total rotation.

Lastly, I've never been able to tell that engraving glass twice gives you better results than engraving once at twice the power. So as far as I'm concerned, the best solution is to determine your optimum speed/power settings for one pass engraving; which might have been what the tech was trying to say.

HTH,

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