Full Version: Stainless Steel
From: basehorawards [#1]
1 Mar 2007
To: ALL
How deep do you usually engrave industrial stainless? How many passes?
I am doing a job on a bunch of customer supplied stainless and am curious whether I am going deep enough. I am going about .003 in two passes
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#2]
1 Mar 2007
To: basehorawards [#1] 1 Mar 2007
If just making a mark, .003 is fine.
If color-filling, more depth will be required. I use between .008 and .010 as a starting point.
From: basehorawards [#3]
1 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#2] 1 Mar 2007
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4]
1 Mar 2007
To: basehorawards [#3] 1 Mar 2007
I agree that the stamping probably isn't much deeper.
If you've ever tried to remove engraving (even shallow engraving) from stainless (I have) you'll know that (to use a double-negative) it aint goin' nowhere. :-)
From: basehorawards [#5]
1 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4] 1 Mar 2007
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#6]
1 Mar 2007
To: basehorawards [#5] 1 Mar 2007
No extras?
That's a testament to the confidence you've instilled in your customers. :-)
From: basehorawards [#7]
1 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#6] 1 Mar 2007
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#8]
1 Mar 2007
To: basehorawards [#7] 1 Mar 2007
James,
There is no doubt in OUR minds you can do it. :D
From: Andrew [#9]
1 Mar 2007
To: ALL
Hi Guys
Can I borrow fom your experiences with Stainless. This is an area I am trying to find time to learn a little (and hopefully master one day!)
Can I ask what cutter you use on stainless. Are you using a quarter round for marking or a normal cutter. Is this the same for paint filling needing the deeper engraving?
Also can I ask what cutting angle / clearance angles you are using. I understand that for paint filling 22.5 to 30 degrees cutting angle is recomeded for the paint to hold. I went straight to 30 degree on my first attempts. I notice on the antares web site 40 degrees is recommeded but don't know if this is suitable for paint filling..
My first planned use is for engraving small single line text (height .012") I do a lot of this on brass at the moment. I am slowing down the feed rate of the machine below what I use for brass, and have about 18,000 rpm with the fine cutters.
Thanks. I am looking to get some more time on this at the weekend.
EDITED: 1 Mar 2007 by ANDREW
From: basehorawards [#10]
1 Mar 2007
To: Andrew [#9] 1 Mar 2007
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#11]
2 Mar 2007
To: Andrew [#9] 2 Mar 2007
Like James, (contrary to the common wisdom), I use the same angle cutters on stainless, as I use for plastics. The flatter-angled cutters, especially for small typefaces, make too bold a character, while sometimes not creating enough depth.
Use a very slow feed rate, with a cutting oil and multiple passes at a few (2 or 3) thousandths of an inch per pass.
Note: A cutter grinder is a must, if you'll be engraving metal; especially stainless.
If memory serves, you own one.
EDITED: 2 Mar 2007 by DGL
From: Andrew [#12]
2 Mar 2007
To: ALL
Thanks David and James
I will use a smaller angle on my next attempt. I got good results with a flat cutter but wasn't really suitable for paint filling.
I tend to get hung up on theory - especially since getting a grinder - I never gave cutter angles any thought before. Now I probably give it too much thought!
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#13]
2 Mar 2007
To: Andrew [#12] 2 Mar 2007
Andrew,
At the risk of seeming unsophisticated, I can say I use the same angles for all of my rotary engraving. :-)
When that stops working, I'll make a change.
EDITED: 2 Mar 2007 by DGL
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#14]
2 Mar 2007
To: Andrew [#9] 3 Mar 2007
If you are looking for a new type bit, Antares makes a two flute spiral cutter for stainless steel. I have used their .005 cutter at .001-.002 depth on the back of watches with perfect results. I do not think I can resharpen it in-house.
Use a spindle speed of 8,000 to 10,000 RPM and a slow feed rate. Stainless requires a far lower spindle speed than brass/aluminum. It has a much lower parting speed.
The parting speed is the speed at which the material breaks just before the cutting bit, therefore not wearing the leading edge of the bit much. In the machining industry it is referred to in feet per minute/second.
From: Andrew [#15]
3 Mar 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#14] 3 Mar 2007
Thanks Harvey
I am going to stick with the half round for now as I need to regrind myself.
I have been experimenting today. I got some ugly results when I dropped the feed rate right down.
I also played with spindle speed. I found some conflicting advice on this around the net (as you would expect!)
I found the following recommedation from Suregrave:
Stainless Steel - Max. spindle speed
Mild Steel - 6000 - 8000
tool Steel - 10000
After a lot of messing about and lost material I am using 19000 rpm and set my machine feed rate at 35% of its top speed - this is only a little slower than I use for brass.
I was getting a lot of breaks on my cutter tips. I have done two things to solve this:
Reduced the plunge rate on the z axis
changed the Clearance angle on my cutters (smaller angle) so that they are a little stronger. Other than changing the clearance angle the cutters are the same as I use on brass and plastic.
I'm now getting good results at a depth of about .005". Next step is to go deeper for paint filling.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16]
3 Mar 2007
To: Andrew [#15] 3 Mar 2007
Were you using cutting oil, or a coolant of any kind?
It's crucial.
From: Andrew [#17]
3 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16] 3 Mar 2007
Hi David
Yes I am using a cutting oil.
Its just that I make life difficult by starting off with a domed item that needs very small text engraved. The breaks were something I was expecting as the cutter width is very small and therefore weak. it is for 2.5mm text (0.1" in your money!)
I had this problem with some commercial brass I had to engrave once - as a rule I generally use engravers brass.
The tip size is possibly too small for Stainless, however, since changing the clearance angle and the plunge rate , I have been using the same cutter all afternoon, which has a tip size of 0.2mm (.008"). I've not lost any material since them. If this hadn't of worked I would have switched to using a HSS cutter as these never seem to break on me.
The results are great, and I have sent out a few orders just now - I usually use a faceted diamond on stainless. Once I get a bit more depth I will increase my pricing and offer a paint filled finish.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18]
3 Mar 2007
To: Andrew [#17] 3 Mar 2007
More hassle = More $. :-)
Some people avoid engraving and color-filling metal, because they think they'll have to charge more than people would want to pay.
I say price your item(s) according to what makes the work profitable and let them decide their if it's a method that you'll offer.
From: Andrew [#19]
3 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18] 3 Mar 2007
I agree with you 100%.
Items I currently sell that are coloured filled retail at 25 to 40% more. I'm looking at steel to bring in some more cash for little extra work. I have the capacity for a slightly longer engraving time than the current method used for stainless, and I don't mind the paint filling - very easy on small objects.
Meanwhile - still on the same cutter, I'm getting deeper, and have upped the feed rate to the same level as brass now. Its been a good day :-)
EDITED: 3 Mar 2007 by ANDREW
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#20]
3 Mar 2007
To: Andrew [#15] 29 Jul 2008
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