Full Version: Wraps vs. Press

From: UncleSteve [#10]
 3 Mar 2007
To: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#9] 4 Mar 2007

What kind of mugs are you baking for only 16 minutes? The hard coated/dishwasher safe mugs I use require much closer to 19-20 minutes to get a good image....

From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#11]
 4 Mar 2007
To: ALL

quote:
Only, YOU know for sure....again go to www.dyesub.org and do a search there as Ed suggested. You will find lots of information as well as a review of some mug presses...Join the forum over there as well and you will find lots of help.

I've actually been a lurking member for quite a while now, Chuck. There really is quite a lot of useful information there. But I never stop with just one source ;-) And I do agree with you that "cheap" is not an option when it comes to tools....used from someone other than a manufacturer (with a warranty) is out of the question. From whom did you buy your Novachrome press?

quote:
The mug press is just in and out although one at a time.
The speed is not that critical to us. We sell the sublimated mugs
for $8 so usually only do under 20 at a time.

The efficiency is important to us, logojohn. And while mugs sound like a precarious business because of breakage, we could easily face 1,000 units in a single order if we offer the product. The real question is, which solution is best over time with the same or better quality results.

quote:
In our old decorating shop, 1 person could easily decorate 600 mugs / shift using wraps.

Mick....your wraps are among those we are looking at. The dssi folks seem to really rave at the quality. Have you considered a special offer for the members here at EE? (angel)

quote:
Since I can do other things while they are cooking I don't think it really takes 100 minutes away from other work.

Excellent post, Gary....are you using a small convection oven in the shop or is it possible to use a full-size standard electric oven?

From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#12]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#11] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
Have you considered a special offer for the members here at EE?


Go to the top of this page and click on "Special Deals". Then scroll down to the Cactus banner. Mick gives EE members a 10% discount.

From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#13]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#12] 4 Mar 2007

Fantastic, Dave....thanks! Now if I could only make a decision.... :S

From: precisionlaser [#14]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#13] 4 Mar 2007

Doc,

I visited a company on Friday that does a lot of mugs. Their set up was a gang of Epson C86s/Artainium Ink Bulk Systems/mug wraps and several (about 12 if I remember correctly) Hamilton-Beach convection ovens. I discussed this set up with them, and they said that the multiple C86s were a lot cheaper than a larger printer and gave them critical backup when one unit fails. I asked them why not use a conveyor oven and again they had a good response: backup and convenience...apparently a conveyor oven takes up a lot of space and takes a while to heat up to the correct temp.

I've also spoken to other "grey beards" in the business and all of them are unanimous: if you're going to do volume, use wraps and ovens.

For what it's worth...

From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#15]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#9] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
After all was said and done, it took me 15 minutes to prep all the mugs, 80 minutes of baking, and 15 minutes of cleanup - a total of about 100 minutes. I know 80 + 15 + 15 = 110 but 10 minutes of prep time was while the first batch of mugs was in the oven.



Gary,

With a press and a satellite, one could do the same quantity of mugs in 60 minutes......including prep.......

What an interesting discussion this has become.

From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#16]
 4 Mar 2007
To: precisionlaser [#14] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
I've also spoken to other "grey beards" in the business and all of them are unanimous: if you're going to do volume, use wraps and ovens.



I wonder if they are the same ones that steered me to the mug press? ( insert devious laugh here).


quote:

For what it's worth...


Your experience is worth a lot Mark. Keep it up.

From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#17]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#1] 4 Mar 2007

Jim,

It will be interesting to hear about your ultimate decision.

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18]
 4 Mar 2007
To: ALL

Although I've never used a mug wrap, over the years, the "common wisdom" has been wraps are the way to go for volume orders and more importantly, reliable top to bottom coverage.

Don't forget that there's opportunity in wraps for objects other than coffee mugs:

http://laserreproductions.com/heatwrap.html

From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#19]
 4 Mar 2007
To: precisionlaser [#14] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
Their set up was a gang of Epson C86s/Artainium Ink Bulk Systems/mug wraps and several (about 12 if I remember correctly) Hamilton-Beach convection ovens.

Sounds like quite an operation, Mark! Unfortunately I don't have the room for all that additional equipment....but I do like the sound of their oven-of-choice. A quick Google found the unit at Walmart for under $80! Judging by the size of it, I'm guessing about 4 mugs will fit in it at once....correct?

EDITED: 4 Mar 2007 by GREAT_ATLANTIC

From: precisionlaser [#20]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#19] 4 Mar 2007

I believe that they told me that they could cook 6 at a time, but that depends on the wrap you use as well as the size of the mug.

From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#21]
 4 Mar 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#15] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
With a press and a satellite, one could do the same quantity of mugs in 60 minutes...

This setup runs about $1,200 Chuck? Might be able to make that happen if (...and that's a big if) a large order were placed. But Murphy's Law could also put me firmly in the hole if we were to rely on 5-10 mugs at a shot, particularly with a new market for us.
quote:
It will be interesting to hear about your ultimate decision.
For me too! :S

EDITED: 4 Mar 2007 by GREAT_ATLANTIC

From: Mick [#22]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#11] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
Mick....your wraps are among those we are looking at. The dssi folks seem to really rave at the quality. Have you considered a special offer for the members here at EE? (angel)
quote:

10% discount on wraps and our brand new mug press called the SmartPress. That takes the press down to $585

EDITED: 4 Mar 2007 by MICK

From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#23]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
Although I've never used a mug wrap, over the years, the "common wisdom" has been wraps are the way to go for volume orders and more importantly, reliable top to bottom coverage.

Do you use a press in your sublimation business, David?

Pretty interesting to see that other sizes of wraps/products are available.

From: Mick [#24]
 4 Mar 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#15] 4 Mar 2007

Two presses might be better than a primary and a satellite. If the primary goes down, you lose both and don't have a backup.

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#25]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#23] 4 Mar 2007

Jim,

I don't do many mugs. Mostly plates for award plaques and name badges.

When I do press mugs, I have carte blanche at a friend's shop who owns a Novachrome Mug Pro. Older model, with less top to bottom coverage than the newer model, but it's a very nice press.

I try to keep the image area to about 2.875" tall, which is ample for most applications.

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#26]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Mick [#22] 4 Mar 2007

Mick,

Get out the wet noodle, but throughout the ARA show I never did lay eyes upon the SmartPress.

Any pictures?

From: Mick [#27]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#26] 4 Mar 2007

Too bad David, I'll put more info in the Advertising/Buy/Sell area

From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#28]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Mick [#24] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
Two presses might be better than a primary and a satellite. If the primary goes down, you lose both and don't have a backup.


Mick,
You have a good point.

From: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#29]
 4 Mar 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#15] 4 Mar 2007

You are right but you are working for the entire 60 minutes, non-stop, and are getting nothing else done in the mean time. I, on the other hand, have the whole time the mugs are cooking to work on other projects. I can make twice as much money in the same amount of time.

And, if I had 4 sets of wraps and two ovens I could do a gazillion times more mugs than you could with your press.

Best of all, my 4 sets of wraps and two ovens only cost me $360 - how much was your satellite again? :)

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