Full Version: Wraps vs. Press
From: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#9]
3 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#1] 3 Mar 2007
I have 5 wraps and just did a batch of 24 mugs. I prepped the first 5 and put them in the oven. While they were baking I prepped the rest. I let the wrap sit for about 5 minutes inbetween batches and it was cool enough to handle. I have two "ove gloves" and they are the best $30 I have spent. I can take a mug out of the oven and hold it for as long as I want to and my hand barely gets warm.
After all was said and done, it took me 15 minutes to prep all the mugs, 80 minutes of baking, and 15 minutes of cleanup - a total of about 100 minutes. I know 80 + 15 + 15 = 110 but 10 minutes of prep time was while the first batch of mugs was in the oven.
While the mugs are baking for their 16 minutes I was able to do other things, unlike a press where you have 4 minutes. Since I can do other things while they are cooking I don't think it really takes 100 minutes away from other work. I don't think you could get away with that with a press - in 4 minutes you would just get started on something else and have to go right back to the press for the next mug. With a press you are going to be there for a minimum of 96 minutes and you won't be able to leave and do much else inbetween mugs.
For me, it was a no-brainer to spend just over $100 for wraps compared to $700/$800 for a press.
Just my .02
Gary
From: UncleSteve [#10]
3 Mar 2007
To: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#9] 4 Mar 2007
From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#11]
4 Mar 2007
To: ALL
I've actually been a lurking member for quite a while now, Chuck. There really is quite a lot of useful information there. But I never stop with just one source ;-) And I do agree with you that "cheap" is not an option when it comes to tools....used from someone other than a manufacturer (with a warranty) is out of the question. From whom did you buy your Novachrome press?
The speed is not that critical to us. We sell the sublimated mugs
for $8 so usually only do under 20 at a time.
The efficiency is important to us, logojohn. And while mugs sound like a precarious business because of breakage, we could easily face 1,000 units in a single order if we offer the product. The real question is, which solution is best over time with the same or better quality results.
Mick....your wraps are among those we are looking at. The dssi folks seem to really rave at the quality. Have you considered a special offer for the members here at EE? (angel)
Excellent post, Gary....are you using a small convection oven in the shop or is it possible to use a full-size standard electric oven?
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#12]
4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#11] 4 Mar 2007
Go to the top of this page and click on "Special Deals". Then scroll down to the Cactus banner. Mick gives EE members a 10% discount.
From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#13]
4 Mar 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#12] 4 Mar 2007
From: precisionlaser [#14]
4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#13] 4 Mar 2007
Doc,
I visited a company on Friday that does a lot of mugs. Their set up was a gang of Epson C86s/Artainium Ink Bulk Systems/mug wraps and several (about 12 if I remember correctly) Hamilton-Beach convection ovens. I discussed this set up with them, and they said that the multiple C86s were a lot cheaper than a larger printer and gave them critical backup when one unit fails. I asked them why not use a conveyor oven and again they had a good response: backup and convenience...apparently a conveyor oven takes up a lot of space and takes a while to heat up to the correct temp.
I've also spoken to other "grey beards" in the business and all of them are unanimous: if you're going to do volume, use wraps and ovens.
For what it's worth...
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#15]
4 Mar 2007
To: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#9] 4 Mar 2007
Gary,
With a press and a satellite, one could do the same quantity of mugs in 60 minutes......including prep.......
What an interesting discussion this has become.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#16]
4 Mar 2007
To: precisionlaser [#14] 4 Mar 2007
I wonder if they are the same ones that steered me to the mug press? ( insert devious laugh here).
For what it's worth...
Your experience is worth a lot Mark. Keep it up.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#17]
4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#1] 4 Mar 2007
Jim,
It will be interesting to hear about your ultimate decision.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18]
4 Mar 2007
To: ALL
Don't forget that there's opportunity in wraps for objects other than coffee mugs:
http://laserreproductions.com/heatwrap.html
From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#19]
4 Mar 2007
To: precisionlaser [#14] 4 Mar 2007
Sounds like quite an operation, Mark! Unfortunately I don't have the room for all that additional equipment....but I do like the sound of their oven-of-choice. A quick Google found the unit at Walmart for under $80! Judging by the size of it, I'm guessing about 4 mugs will fit in it at once....correct?
EDITED: 4 Mar 2007 by GREAT_ATLANTIC
From: precisionlaser [#20]
4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#19] 4 Mar 2007
From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#21]
4 Mar 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#15] 4 Mar 2007
This setup runs about $1,200 Chuck? Might be able to make that happen if (...and that's a big if) a large order were placed. But Murphy's Law could also put me firmly in the hole if we were to rely on 5-10 mugs at a shot, particularly with a new market for us.
EDITED: 4 Mar 2007 by GREAT_ATLANTIC
From: Mick [#22]
4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#11] 4 Mar 2007
EDITED: 4 Mar 2007 by MICK
From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#23]
4 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18] 4 Mar 2007
Do you use a press in your sublimation business, David?
Pretty interesting to see that other sizes of wraps/products are available.
From: Mick [#24]
4 Mar 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#15] 4 Mar 2007
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#25]
4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#23] 4 Mar 2007
I don't do many mugs. Mostly plates for award plaques and name badges.
When I do press mugs, I have carte blanche at a friend's shop who owns a Novachrome Mug Pro. Older model, with less top to bottom coverage than the newer model, but it's a very nice press.
I try to keep the image area to about 2.875" tall, which is ample for most applications.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#26]
4 Mar 2007
To: Mick [#22] 4 Mar 2007
Get out the wet noodle, but throughout the ARA show I never did lay eyes upon the SmartPress.
Any pictures?
From: Mick [#27]
4 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#26] 4 Mar 2007
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#28]
4 Mar 2007
To: Mick [#24] 4 Mar 2007
Mick,
You have a good point.