Full Version: My First Laser- Epilog Mini-18
From: deLazer [#1]
13 Mar 2007
To: ALL
EDITED: 13 Mar 2007 by DELAZER
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#2]
13 Mar 2007
To: deLazer [#1] 14 Mar 2007
Yes, there will be obstacles down the road.
We will be here to help you out.
Welcome to the posting end of the forum.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#3]
13 Mar 2007
To: deLazer [#1] 14 Mar 2007
Hello Delazer,
Congratulations on your new machine. It will be fun and exciting and hopefully profitable.
Might I suggest taking a moment and filling out your profile. It will help many folks here help you. Some might be interested in knowing your name too. Just a thought
Welcome aboard....
From: Buzz [#4]
14 Mar 2007
To: deLazer [#1] 14 Mar 2007
I am located right here in Georgia, if you ever need help, give me a call and we can get-r-done. B-)
Always nice to make new friends!
EDITED: 14 Mar 2007 by BUZZ
From: deLazer [#5]
14 Mar 2007
To: ALL
From: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#6]
14 Mar 2007
To: deLazer [#5] 14 Mar 2007
Mark,
I'm still a newbie in the business......so I can still VIVIDLY recall the fear and excitement of making that initial investment!
Jump in with both feet, my friend, and don't be shy about posting questions AND answers here!
Welcome aboard!
Cody
From: deLazer [#7]
14 Mar 2007
To: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#6] 15 Mar 2007
From: Larry B (PALMETTO) [#8]
15 Mar 2007
To: ALL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#9]
15 Mar 2007
To: Larry B (PALMETTO) [#8] 15 Mar 2007
Welcome to the forum and the new equipment jitters. :-)
Sounds like the initial applications you'll be using are pretty straight-forward.
How are your graphics program skills? That's the biggest hurdle for many people.
From: Larry B (PALMETTO) [#10]
15 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#9] 15 Mar 2007
From: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#11]
15 Mar 2007
To: Larry B (PALMETTO) [#8] 15 Mar 2007
Nice to see all the newbies! Me being one as well. Dave L--I need some info please. Received my machine last Thursday and started in earnest with the experimental stuff. Sales guy for Epilog was helpful, but most of the fine tune stuff has to be done here. I've attached pics of my experiments, etc. and the first couple of jobs I did. Recall I booked them before I had the machine.
I'm satisfied with the imaging I am getting on stone. It is clear, sharp, well defined, et al. What I don't like is for the life of me I can't get rid of the canvas "background" and still make it look good. I know how to erase the background in Paint and Draw, however, I can't get the hang of layering I guess. Any help would be appreciated.
I feel pretty good about imaging in stone now. Dave Jones help was immeasurable when it came to figuring out the dot thing and pixel thang. At first my problem was the imaging I was putting in was better than it had to be. I would scan a very good image at 1200 or 2400 and the result was the info was too fine for Photograv. After I printed the image at 300 dpi, scanned it at 1200 and took it from there. By golly--it worked. And yes each stone is different. Jim at LaserSketch has parameters for his stone and will email to anyone who needs them.
EDITED: 16 Apr 2007 by MIKE2449
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12]
15 Mar 2007
To: Larry B (PALMETTO) [#10] 15 Mar 2007
You have square-one under control, which, sadly, is a step many new laser owners think they can bypass.
You'll be on fire...well...figuratively speaking. :-)
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#13]
15 Mar 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#11] 15 Mar 2007
I took a glance at the fourth one, 'Our Little Angels'.
Excellent job. Some here wish they could get it that good.
Assuming by the values you were scanning at your laser runs at 600 DPI. (You really need to match the image DPI to the laser DPI or even multiples/divisors.)
You can do that more easily in Corel. Size the image in Draw, then edit it in Paint. Resample to the proper DPI, lets say 2400.
Go to Image/Mode/Black and White. Select the halftoning filter and the Fixed 8 X 8 style in the dropdown. That will result in something that will look horrid on screen unless blown up a lot. But it will end up with 2400 dpi resolved to 300 DPI in a great dot pattern format for lasering. If you want to end up with an equivalent 150 DPI, start with a resample to 1200 DPI. [You will be amazed at how good, (unlike a normal 150 DPI), this can look.]
This conversion results in a pattern of expanding sized dots for the different levels of grey. Perfect for the laser. (64 levels of grey.)
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#14]
15 Mar 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#11] 15 Mar 2007
Are you placing your images on a transparent background?
Even then, it's possible to have artifacts of the background show up.
Could be that your scanner is set for too sensitive a setting. <shrug>
I'm not a laser operator, though my comments are based on fairly heavy involvement with dye sublimation, where many of the same fundamentals apply.
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#15]
15 Mar 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#11] 15 Mar 2007
Your work looks great. It looks like you have the basic process of scanning, scaling, dithering, and lasering down. Very good.
There are many ways of doing the masking. There are some choices that are aesthetic and some based on what software you use. It helps if you can keep the masking seperate from the image so that you can go back and tweak the mask later if you want to.
Aesthetically some images seem to look better without masking, or with the masking going to full laser strength so the shape of the image becomes a sort of frame for the contents. This can be true with some rectangular images, and also for creating shapes like a heart with faces in it.
When doing substrates that require negative images, like dark stone, dark aluminum, and acrylic, you need the background to drop out to black on the original image. There are many ways to do that.
- simplest is to use a black brush tool and simply paint out the background. Drawback is it's not editable afterwards.
- using a similar technique but using a layer above the image layer you can paint black on that upper layer and it covers the image with black where needed but since it isn't painted on the image layer it can be modified at any time
- Many paint programs can create "clipping masks". These can sometimes be just another image layer you paint on and it determines the opacity of the image layer. Or it can be a vector layer that cuts out a shape. Vector masks are nice since they draw a line around the image and you use the handles at points on the line to adjust the shape and make it match the image.
- Corel has it's own variation of a clipping mask built in, called PowerClip that you can use to apply a vector shape to a bitmap image and cut out the image using that shape.
One advantage of painting black on an upper layer over using vector shapes is that you can adjust the size and opacity of the brush you use to create gentle vignettes in irregular shapes and with varying sharpness of the edges at different points around the image.
Another thing to think about, in cases where the background vignettes, or where you create a shape around an image and some of the background of the image is still showing. You can use the blur tool in a paint program to blur the background behind the figures so details in the background are not so noticeable.
EDITED: 15 Mar 2007 by DAVERJ
From: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#16]
15 Mar 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#13] 15 Mar 2007
Harvey:
Thanks for the input. I have an Epilog Hexlix 35 watt. I've engraved things at 1200 dpi--very slick, and have learned that even multiples and divisors are mandatory.
When you say size the image in Draw--make it larger or smaller as needed or change the pixel information? I usually change the phisical size of the image in draw and then make it a 300 dpi bmp. I send it to Photograv, load the params I got from lasersketch and auto process. Edit in paint? Like erase the background? Resample to proper dpi? I have an hp scanjet8300. I can adjust the size, sharpness, etc before the scan. Is it better to do this in paint? (I hate the scanner, lots of money, lots of compatability problems, lots of communication problems).
I'm going to take a 1200 dpi scan that I have (the little angels one) and try your recommendation. Absolute black granite is giving me some headaches. I think this dot resample is the fix and am going to give it a try before I leave this evening. Thanks again.
Dave L--yes I am using a transparent backgrnd--doesn't seem to work. I think it is a scanner issue. I purchased this model because of it's proclaimed ability. I was awestruck that it would allow a 19,000 pixel scan. 8 years ago that would have cost 20-30 k for a flatbed like that.
However, I'm certain it would crash if I pushed the package. One day will have to resolve that because big images require lots of info.
Quick story from last week. Years ago when I fabricated marble, granite, etc. a guy comes in looking for work. I give him work, he is exceptional. One day brings in portfolio. He studied stone carving under the Masters in Pietrasantra Italy. I got him other work until he could strike out on his own. We remained good friends. His work includes Michael Jordan bronze casting in front of the United Center in Chicago, Harey Carey at Wrigley Field and a host of others around the country. He called me last week. Did a large job for the Adler Planitarium in Chicago, Buz Aldrin statuary on black granite base with the Moon etched in the granite. He is unhappy with the image and wants me to look at it. Now I must make the trip--I will keep you all abreast of whats happening. Amazing that a new buz venture takes on this type of potential so soon.
Nobody new to this should be afraid. "Don't ever look back--someone may be gaining on you"
Thanks all for your time!
Michael
From: Larry B (PALMETTO) [#17]
15 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12] 15 Mar 2007
Ha..thanks for that! Now all I have to do is figure out all these new markets that are popping up for this thang. I think I can handle the graphics if I can come up with what to make. Gotta go find me a another niche. The development signage has been good but being blessed with all this capability, I can't let it go to waste.
Got e-mail from distributor today. Laser should ship today or tomorrow from Colorado. Arrival next week. Training set for next Friday.
Thanks for the reply :|
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18]
15 Mar 2007
To: Larry B (PALMETTO) [#17] 16 Mar 2007
As you say, with so many ways to go, you may find yourself involved in areas, other than signage.
Hooking up with businesses that have a need for engraving has always been my favorite ways to go.
In my case, oddly enough, some of my clientele comes from the engraving industry itself.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#19]
15 Mar 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#16] 16 Mar 2007
I did not catch that you were using PhotoGrave.
The instructions I gave are for doing it manually without PhotoGrave. I tested it and like the control I have doing it myself. But then ULS came out with the driver for XP and it does it very well just by sending a color picture out without caring about the DPI or size.
From: Larry B (PALMETTO) [#20]
16 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18] 16 Mar 2007