Full Version: Trying to start Business
From: bosch [#12]
16 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10] 16 Mar 2007
David,
All very well stated. Your right I don't have the tools of the trade which is a concern of mine. Used equipment does scare me, as you stated my knowledge of engravers hampers me greatly.
To answer your question about have I tested waters..... Yes I have asked around and we have two pee wee football leagues around here that are would be interested in bringing business my way. I have touched base with a couple of our local schools coaches and they said they would be interested. But this is all hearsay, and they may be blowing smoke to just to get rid of me.
The other close by awards place is run by a retired gentleman and I've heard through the grapevine that he may be shutting down the business due to health reasons. He does run it out of his home also, I haven't talked to him about his business but I am going to make it a point to stop by there in the very near future to talk to him
From: Boz (CHEDDARHEAD) [#13]
16 Mar 2007
To: ALL
I am surprised no one has started with the putting together a comprehensive Business Plan. That usually is where these discussions head. I too believe a Business Plan is important, but I also think it is a living, breathing document. You can start with Plan A, but then you hit a bump, or something just falls into your lap, now you have to go with Plan B. Sometimes Plan B does not look anything like Plan A. You can use either plan for a guidline, but do not let it blind you.
After many years of being in business for ourselves, we think cash flow is probably one of the most important aspects to business. If you do not have the money to cover a certain situation, they don't let you play the game.
Everyone who is starting a business, us included, starts with a best case scenario. You open the doors to your business and customers and money just keep rolling through the door. Then they come up with a worse case scenario: You open the door to your business and no one ever comes in. (Those of us who have been doing this a while would consider that worse case scenario to be merciful.) When the real worse case scenario is the slow outflow of money eventually drains all of your resources. If I can make it to next week, I'll be able to catch the rainbow. If I can make it to next month, I can catch the rainbow. If I can make it till next season, I can catch the rainbow.
Don't mean to be Mr. Negative. It is just one of my soap boxes. You very rarely hear anyone talk about how important cash flow is to the life of a business. Now, when I win the lottery,....... I will be unemployed! (devil)
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#14]
16 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#12] 16 Mar 2007
Talking to the "old-timer" may be a good idea. If he's getting ready to retire, you may be able to take over where he left off and he would be the likely person to ask about the buying habits of the locals schools, teams etc.
From: Cindy (CINDYM) [#15]
16 Mar 2007
To: Boz (CHEDDARHEAD) [#13] Unread
You are so right and perhaps this is a great topic for another thread so we can expand on it.
Everyone says how good they are doing, but you don't hear near enough how tough being in business really is and what effect cash flow, or lack of it, has on your business growth.
Cindy M
From: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#16]
16 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#1] 16 Mar 2007
I would start with a market plan/ survey.
Answer questions like:
Who is my competion, what do they charge. How am I going to get the word out. Fllyers, Radio, TV, Internet. How much will I put into this venture before I see a profit/call it quits. Accounting software. Credit card payments?Cash, Checks. Bank Account Business License. Sales Tax collection. Rotary or laser. Will the customer come to me or me to them....delivery? mail only? Business phoneline?
Where will orders come from:
Schools, Sports leagues, Rotary, Eagles, Team Mom, Church nametags Assisted living Units. Golf Courses (tournamnets...Fishing Toureys. Hotels/ Resturants (nametags) Scouting........and on and on
Suppliers. PDU, Freeman, Discount Trophy, Continental,
Suppiers need :Credit References....;. COD, Cash, Credit
Dern Trophy - Westerville, OH 1-800-848-3988 go visit a supplier for info/ setting up an account.
Join ARA Awards Recoginition Association
Newing Hall Engraving Machines are made in Toledo (1-800 425-7131) Visit the factory. They will train you.
EDITED: 16 Mar 2007 by PENINSULATROPHY
From: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#17]
16 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#12] 16 Mar 2007
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#18]
16 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#1] 16 Mar 2007
This forum has a wealth of information that you can search through using the search feature. I suggest that you pull up a chair and read until your eyes fog offer. This will allow you to form your own educated decisions.
While I'm at it, I'll offer a few questions and comments to get your thoughts rolling before you get to deep into this business idea.
What is the competitive environment in your market, within 45 minutes of your prospective location?
What are you going to offer that is going to differentiate your service and products from the competition? Don't say price, because the price conscious are going to the internet to buy from companies like this. LINK You won't be putting much food on the table trying to compete on these margins.
If operating out of your home, do you realize it will take a much larger investment of your time and money to get your business name out into the community to a level that will even earn you enough income just to pay for the equipment you'll need to invest in?
To be competitive and to provide the most basic of service in this market, you need to me multifaceted, meaning you need to offer more than one marking process. i.e. laser, rotary, sublimation, sandcarving.
What is the long term vision of your business?
From: Jer (DIAMOND) [#19]
16 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#1] 16 Mar 2007
From: sprinter [#20]
16 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#9] 16 Mar 2007
You really need to make a business plan and do more market research. From the small amount of customers you stated you would be hard pressed to make even one payment on the equipment from the very small profits trophies provide. Just about everyone I know in the business has dropped trophies due to the inventory required and high labor requirements for the pennies to made.
Engraving is a tuff business to start in. Over the years I have seen so many small shops fail and very few that make it over a year or two just doing Trophies and Awards. And it is even more difficult for a home based business making it with just an engraver.
When ever I hear about a shop closing for health reasons, it's usually not the health of the owner, it's the poor health of the business.
I'm trying to point the negatives out for you to do more research before you purchase any equipment.
From: sprinter [#21]
16 Mar 2007
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#18] 16 Mar 2007
David,
You can't compete with the prices from the link you gave. If would be foolish to even try.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#22]
16 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#8] 16 Mar 2007
Hi Bosch,
There are many very successful awards businesses that started out for exactly the reason you stated above. There simply was no place to get quailty trophies or even non quality ones ( insert laugh here)...so they started building them themselves. Steve Capper of A-1 Awards, who now sells world wide and is a featured ARA speaker is ONE, Bill Townsend, is another ( I do not remember the name of his company), but he started building trophies because his sons motorcross team could not find any. He too now has a VERY successful business.....
So while it is TRUE that the trophy end of the awards industry is the LEAST profitable, you CAN build from there......and to assemble basic trophies, you need a chop saw to cut the columns, basic hand tools to assemble them and the figures to put on top as well as the bases.
You will also need to have a way to engrave them, and you can get a small rotary/diamond drag engraver for less than $4000.00.
Now, with all of THAT said, do your market research and heed the advice you have and will receive here.
Just my two cents. Want change?
From: Goodvol (JIMGOOD) [#23]
16 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#1] 16 Mar 2007
Bosch,
I'll give a little advice because you are already getting good advice from the guys that are successful in this business. My first advice is to listen to these guys. Don't put blinders on and decide ahead of time that you already have the path you will travel. It really is only a start. Whether you get a laser or a rotary engraver, there are endless things you can do with it. Rodne Gold had a great post listing a multitude of products or services you could provide. You may find that you have access to a market that you weren't aware of or even knew existed!
Anyway, another bit of advice is to take advantage of SCORE. You can ask questions to some very smart business people that can help you with that part of starting a business. They will ask the hard questions and really show you what you are up against. Two of the first questions they asked me (and it has been repeated here) was, (1) What are you going to offer that they aren't already getting from someone else!?! (2) How many weeks or months of losing money can you survive before you will have to throw in the towel? This business is about building relationships and are you the type of person that can go out there and beat the bushes and create these relationships?
Sorry! I said I was going to offer a LITTLE advice. >.< Last thing. This industry is made up of such good people who enjoy what they do and will share their knowledge. Take advantage of this and give back when you can!
I hope that helps.
Jim
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#24]
16 Mar 2007
To: sprinter [#21] 16 Mar 2007
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#25]
16 Mar 2007
To: ALL
Well trophys can be very profitable , however it seems the USA model isn't , cos it seems its just a comodity in a lot of cases. You might as well be selling bananas.
To explain further , it seems to me that if you do the PDU assemble.engrave a plate thing , you compete with a zillion others , but if you are creative and perhaps stock what others dont and make up your own stuff , your margins are way higher and you set yourself apart. Yeh , you might not get the "I want 100 awards at $5.95" customer , but thats also ok , as that customer makes you almost no profit.
At any rate , you can get into the assembled trophy business without the capital expense of a laser by outsourcing your engraving , a far less costly and less risky way of testing the waters.
You would find it difficult to get into the custom award business without some form of capital expense on a machine of some sort.
I am gonna be real harsh here , but I also believe that you have not done any real homework or thought this thru in any meaningful way and that is a recipe for disaster.
If you are not capable yourself of doing the research or developing the plan and predicting cash flow etc then go to a business planner and pay the money for them to analyse your markets , your idea and develop strategy etc. Even if nothing comes of it , its money well spent cos you could lose a whole lot more by yourself.
Very much like designing your own house cos you dont want to pay an architect , you might muddle thru , but certainly wont get the best bang for the buck or the best utilization of space.
Buying a laser and setting up a business is not like "build it and they will come".
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#26]
16 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#8] 16 Mar 2007
Sorry--- more than a bit off topic!
From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#27]
16 Mar 2007
To: Cindy (CINDYM) [#4] 19 Mar 2007
With all due respect, rather poor advice without any knowledge of this newcomer's market, or frankly the most recent trends in the overall trophy market. While column-on-base remains a staple, the selection of alternative trophies that are neither labor-intensive nor lacking in significant margin is extraordinary. And these now outsell our traditional column trophies 3 to 1.
I've never quite understood dissuading anyone from grabbing a piece of such a powerful market.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#28]
16 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#27] 17 Mar 2007
Jim,
Are you talking about bobble heads and resins?
From: bosch [#29]
17 Mar 2007
To: ALL
To Everyone,
I am so pleased that you all are taking the time to respond to my post and appreciate all the input and it's great stuff. I want to assure to you that I'm not going to jump into this business without doing my homework. By doing my homework is how I located this forum and began reading it and now posting and learning more. Keep posting as it is valuable information to me
I have not done all the research that needs to be done and the approach that I am taking is find out what tools I need to start, what it's going to cost for the tools of the trade, the supplies, etc and then pound the pavement around the area to see who would be interested. As one post earlier stated I have to find out what I'm going to offer that will set me apart from my competition. If I can drum up interest that would give me potential customers for each of the sport seasons to start, then I have to do my ROI. Can I make the payments on the tools during startup, estimated time to become profitable, Advertising costs, etc.
From: bosch [#30]
17 Mar 2007
To: ALL
I'm just writing this so that you all know you are talking to someone that is not going into this with blinders on. I know I have work to do but I don't want to do all the leg work getting customers if I don't know the following
1. What are the minimum tools that I need to start up? (engraver,saw
to cut columns (dont know what its called), punch tool(s) for plagues
(I'm sure there are different punch tools), whatever else I need.
2. What engraver is best for startup? Rotary/Laser? Is there a
suggestion on a particular model?
3. Where can I get supplies for trophies? Right now I have found 1 place
4. How does the market charge for each item they make?
I need this so I can determine my startup costs. Once I know this I can determine what I have to bring in each month just to make payments. I know there is more to it than this I just want you all to know where I am at. I have just started my homework and I may not take a shot at it at all or I might start it in a month, or might start it in a year. I think anytime you start a business you are taking a risk now matter how much you plan. Like someone said in another post that went something like this....... You build your business around plan A and something comes along and now you go to plan B and your business changes. I don't want to go to plan C.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#31]
17 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#30] 17 Mar 2007
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