Full Version: Trying to start Business
From: Jer (DIAMOND) [#19]
16 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#1] 16 Mar 2007
From: sprinter [#20]
16 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#9] 16 Mar 2007
You really need to make a business plan and do more market research. From the small amount of customers you stated you would be hard pressed to make even one payment on the equipment from the very small profits trophies provide. Just about everyone I know in the business has dropped trophies due to the inventory required and high labor requirements for the pennies to made.
Engraving is a tuff business to start in. Over the years I have seen so many small shops fail and very few that make it over a year or two just doing Trophies and Awards. And it is even more difficult for a home based business making it with just an engraver.
When ever I hear about a shop closing for health reasons, it's usually not the health of the owner, it's the poor health of the business.
I'm trying to point the negatives out for you to do more research before you purchase any equipment.
From: sprinter [#21]
16 Mar 2007
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#18] 16 Mar 2007
David,
You can't compete with the prices from the link you gave. If would be foolish to even try.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#22]
16 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#8] 16 Mar 2007
Hi Bosch,
There are many very successful awards businesses that started out for exactly the reason you stated above. There simply was no place to get quailty trophies or even non quality ones ( insert laugh here)...so they started building them themselves. Steve Capper of A-1 Awards, who now sells world wide and is a featured ARA speaker is ONE, Bill Townsend, is another ( I do not remember the name of his company), but he started building trophies because his sons motorcross team could not find any. He too now has a VERY successful business.....
So while it is TRUE that the trophy end of the awards industry is the LEAST profitable, you CAN build from there......and to assemble basic trophies, you need a chop saw to cut the columns, basic hand tools to assemble them and the figures to put on top as well as the bases.
You will also need to have a way to engrave them, and you can get a small rotary/diamond drag engraver for less than $4000.00.
Now, with all of THAT said, do your market research and heed the advice you have and will receive here.
Just my two cents. Want change?
From: Goodvol (JIMGOOD) [#23]
16 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#1] 16 Mar 2007
Bosch,
I'll give a little advice because you are already getting good advice from the guys that are successful in this business. My first advice is to listen to these guys. Don't put blinders on and decide ahead of time that you already have the path you will travel. It really is only a start. Whether you get a laser or a rotary engraver, there are endless things you can do with it. Rodne Gold had a great post listing a multitude of products or services you could provide. You may find that you have access to a market that you weren't aware of or even knew existed!
Anyway, another bit of advice is to take advantage of SCORE. You can ask questions to some very smart business people that can help you with that part of starting a business. They will ask the hard questions and really show you what you are up against. Two of the first questions they asked me (and it has been repeated here) was, (1) What are you going to offer that they aren't already getting from someone else!?! (2) How many weeks or months of losing money can you survive before you will have to throw in the towel? This business is about building relationships and are you the type of person that can go out there and beat the bushes and create these relationships?
Sorry! I said I was going to offer a LITTLE advice. >.< Last thing. This industry is made up of such good people who enjoy what they do and will share their knowledge. Take advantage of this and give back when you can!
I hope that helps.
Jim
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#24]
16 Mar 2007
To: sprinter [#21] 16 Mar 2007
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#25]
16 Mar 2007
To: ALL
Well trophys can be very profitable , however it seems the USA model isn't , cos it seems its just a comodity in a lot of cases. You might as well be selling bananas.
To explain further , it seems to me that if you do the PDU assemble.engrave a plate thing , you compete with a zillion others , but if you are creative and perhaps stock what others dont and make up your own stuff , your margins are way higher and you set yourself apart. Yeh , you might not get the "I want 100 awards at $5.95" customer , but thats also ok , as that customer makes you almost no profit.
At any rate , you can get into the assembled trophy business without the capital expense of a laser by outsourcing your engraving , a far less costly and less risky way of testing the waters.
You would find it difficult to get into the custom award business without some form of capital expense on a machine of some sort.
I am gonna be real harsh here , but I also believe that you have not done any real homework or thought this thru in any meaningful way and that is a recipe for disaster.
If you are not capable yourself of doing the research or developing the plan and predicting cash flow etc then go to a business planner and pay the money for them to analyse your markets , your idea and develop strategy etc. Even if nothing comes of it , its money well spent cos you could lose a whole lot more by yourself.
Very much like designing your own house cos you dont want to pay an architect , you might muddle thru , but certainly wont get the best bang for the buck or the best utilization of space.
Buying a laser and setting up a business is not like "build it and they will come".
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#26]
16 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#8] 16 Mar 2007
Sorry--- more than a bit off topic!
From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#27]
16 Mar 2007
To: Cindy (CINDYM) [#4] 19 Mar 2007
With all due respect, rather poor advice without any knowledge of this newcomer's market, or frankly the most recent trends in the overall trophy market. While column-on-base remains a staple, the selection of alternative trophies that are neither labor-intensive nor lacking in significant margin is extraordinary. And these now outsell our traditional column trophies 3 to 1.
I've never quite understood dissuading anyone from grabbing a piece of such a powerful market.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#28]
16 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#27] 17 Mar 2007
Jim,
Are you talking about bobble heads and resins?
From: bosch [#29]
17 Mar 2007
To: ALL
To Everyone,
I am so pleased that you all are taking the time to respond to my post and appreciate all the input and it's great stuff. I want to assure to you that I'm not going to jump into this business without doing my homework. By doing my homework is how I located this forum and began reading it and now posting and learning more. Keep posting as it is valuable information to me
I have not done all the research that needs to be done and the approach that I am taking is find out what tools I need to start, what it's going to cost for the tools of the trade, the supplies, etc and then pound the pavement around the area to see who would be interested. As one post earlier stated I have to find out what I'm going to offer that will set me apart from my competition. If I can drum up interest that would give me potential customers for each of the sport seasons to start, then I have to do my ROI. Can I make the payments on the tools during startup, estimated time to become profitable, Advertising costs, etc.
From: bosch [#30]
17 Mar 2007
To: ALL
I'm just writing this so that you all know you are talking to someone that is not going into this with blinders on. I know I have work to do but I don't want to do all the leg work getting customers if I don't know the following
1. What are the minimum tools that I need to start up? (engraver,saw
to cut columns (dont know what its called), punch tool(s) for plagues
(I'm sure there are different punch tools), whatever else I need.
2. What engraver is best for startup? Rotary/Laser? Is there a
suggestion on a particular model?
3. Where can I get supplies for trophies? Right now I have found 1 place
4. How does the market charge for each item they make?
I need this so I can determine my startup costs. Once I know this I can determine what I have to bring in each month just to make payments. I know there is more to it than this I just want you all to know where I am at. I have just started my homework and I may not take a shot at it at all or I might start it in a month, or might start it in a year. I think anytime you start a business you are taking a risk now matter how much you plan. Like someone said in another post that went something like this....... You build your business around plan A and something comes along and now you go to plan B and your business changes. I don't want to go to plan C.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#31]
17 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#30] 17 Mar 2007
From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#32]
17 Mar 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#28] 17 Mar 2007
Many of the (smart) manufacturers have become sensitive to our needs for trophies (a big term) under $10.00....under $6.00. And it is becoming easier with volume buying programs to hold the line on 3-4x pricing. You just have to be willing to consolidate more of your business with fewer distributors and sell these products.
About half of our business is on that side of the showroom....and I love trophies. Not just for the business reasons....but for what they stand, the reaction from the kids and parents (and quite a few poker players :B ,) the artistic quality, and the heritage. And when it does come to the business side, it can be very profitable.
From: Jer (DIAMOND) [#33]
17 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#30] 17 Mar 2007
I don't think anyone is going to tell you which is better, laser or rotary. We have a laser in our shop. My wife works at a local college and does all their engraving with a rotary. I would like to have a small rotary to go along with our laser. I guess the pluses and minuses are about even for each so you will need to look at the different models and decide for yourself.
For supplies check out www.jdsindustries.com and get a catalog. Also Continental Trophies (sorry I don't have a contact in front of me). Both companies are strong trophy suppliers with good prices. There are 100 more out there.
Again, do your homework and don't be afraid of trophies. I bet you will do OK with them but your business will move into other areas that will be more profitable and just as rewarding.
From: Jer (DIAMOND) [#34]
17 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#30] 17 Mar 2007
From: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#35]
17 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#30] 17 Mar 2007
1. What are the minimum tools that I need to start up? (engraver,saw
to cut columns (dont know what its called), punch tool(s) for plagues
(I'm sure there are different punch tools), whatever else I need.
Metal/Plastic Shear.......Cutoff saw, Hammer, screwdrivers -, +, pliers, Hole/corner punch, beveler, drill/drillpress, lots of storage/work space...shelving units.
You can start, in the awards business with sublimation....... proably the least expensive of the marking process. An Epson Printer (ink jet) or color laser, a heat press and a metal shear. Punches if you want to add holes or corner designs. A Mug press would add to that start. This would give you aluminum plates, Tiles, mugs and ceramic plates.
2. What engraver is best for startup? Rotary/Laser? Is there a
suggestion on a particular model?
A Laser "what size" 25 watt minumum. 12 x 24 work surface Epiolog, Universal, Trotec, Xenetech......Chineese
Rotary Engraver 9 x 12 work surface up to 24 x 30 or larger. Diamond drag spindle or Rotray so you can do plastics and acrylics.......Newing-Hall, Vision, New Hermes, Quality- One (Quest), Xenetech
2. What engraver is best for startup? Rotary/Laser? Is there a
suggestion on a particular model?
How much do you want to invest...$$$$$ plan on 10-15K with laser or rotary if you are serious. My first rotray was 20K and laser was 25K 12 years ago. and they are both still running great. (Newing Hall 350 and Trotec Speedy) where do you see yourself in 2 years, five years, 10 years. Hobby or industrial quality......size table..
3. Where can I get supplies for trophies? Right now I have found 1 place
Simple answer.... all over the USA. Go to Westernville (Dern) and look at what is offered. I get parts from WA, CA, GA, FLA, MT, MA Since you are starting out you will be buying eaches and not alot of cases. Start small and local...... aluminum/plastic sheets come in 12x24 columns come in 18" and 48" ,
4. How does the market charge for each item they make? By the letter, by the line, by the plate.. a good mark up for a kids sport trophy is 3.5 - 4 times. So a figure on a base $1-1.5 in sells for $5-6.5 engraved. Most parents will spend 5 bucks for a trophy. but a season for trophys may only last 2-3 weeks and then 2-months before the next sport ends......... so what are you going to do to fill the fridge. Name tags, name plates, baby cups, mugs, pen sets. And then you add screen printing and embrodiery, ad specialty items.........
Hope this helps!
EDITED: 17 Mar 2007 by PENINSULATROPHY
From: Larry B (PALMETTO) [#36]
17 Mar 2007
To: Boz (CHEDDARHEAD) [#13] Unread
No truer words were ever spoken! If your not between the flow..you can't get any to stick to YOU!
From: Ray (STAMP) [#37]
17 Mar 2007
To: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#35] 17 Mar 2007
I really enjoy this forum .
Thanks to all and the hard working host. :-)
From: Jack (ALPHASUPPLY) [#38]
17 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#1] 17 Mar 2007
Greetings Bosch,
While waiting to go pick up my grandchildren, I visited here and read this thread. While I’m not sure I can significantly add to the excellent advice you have received, I thought I might offer another perspective.
I have many dozens of customers that I have helped start up, over the years, which have very similar profiles to yours.
In no particular order, here are some basics that I have shared.
1. Don’t spend your last dime on equipment. You will need money for basic inventory. You also want a bit put back for the unexpected (good and bad).
2. Consult with someone on a good beginning inventory setup, preferably not a salesperson of components.
3. In the beginning, be as miserly as possible on inventory quantities. It is very easy to be inventory rich and cash poor. To save freight and time, begin with ones that are closer to you.
4. Be aware of quantity pricing but don’t be a slave to it. For example, 48” columns sometimes only have a buck difference in broken and single case price. On a 6” column that is only a 12 cent difference.
5. Visit several trophy companies in towns larger than yours. You don’t have to tell then you want to start a business. Just visit, look and get a feel.
6. Remember that only in the dictionary does production come before selling. When you are producing you are not selling. Always go for efficiency in your operation. Your time is worth its weight in gold and it is amazing how quickly you will spend it.
7. While you are doing marketing research (talking to people) don’t always come from the angle of them buying from you. Talk about awards in general: their needs, what they liked (and didn’t like), when they need things, who else they know who needs things. Keep notes.
8. Don’t mix your personal and business income together. Grow the company from the company.
9. Keep an eye on cash flow and both eyes on profitability. A company must have both. Be very careful about giving terms to individuals, clubs, leagues, etc. Schools always pay, but often slowly. Never be reluctant to turn down an unprofitable order or accept terms that you don’t want.
10. Never be tempted to “give it away” just because you are a home based business. From day one you are a professional. Pros deserve to be paid. If you want to do charity work, volunteer at the Red Cross.
11. Don’t try to be everything to everyone. Make a plan and then work your plan. Just because Aunt Mitilda wants a mug doesn’t mean that you have a customer base to get the necessaries to do just that. Expand when it makes good business sense.
12. Have fun and make money but never forget that you always need to remember that it is a business.
Many lists may be offered on what you need to start. Mine is as basic as I could think of. Some of the numbers are approximate because of what you might want.
99.95 Easy to learn desktop publishing program
300.00 Good running, refurbished single color laser printer
239.00 Single color laser sublimation cartridge
285.00 Metal shear
395.00 Dependable heat press
175.00 10” miter saw, with a plywood blade
5.00 7/16” nut driver
Total, about $1,500 – Other items might be wanted and you can certainly spend more by getting bigger and “badder” but I have quite a few folks that don’t have much more and are producing nice revenue streams.
Oops! Got to go pick up the grandkids. Good luck on your dreams. Without them life would be much duller for all of us.
Cordially,
Jack Franklin
Alpha Supply Co.
Nashville, TN
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