Full Version: New to engraving...
From: Boz (CHEDDARHEAD) [#16]
20 Mar 2007
To: ALL
Patti, keep in mind, we like to spend your money.
I do not agree with the higher the power, the better the system. Higher power does offer some advantages, especially when you are into production of materials that eat up a lot of power. But I do agree with Rodney Gold about redundancy. AS your laser engraving side of the business grows, adding more systems makes more sense to me than adding just laser power. If you only have one system, and your system fails, you are out of production. If you have two lower powered machines, and one of them breaks down, then you are now working overtime.
You can start the laser engraving side of the business with a nice professional series machine of 30 watts, and be able to do ALMOST anything anyone else can do. It might be a bit slower, but you can still do it. Also, the higher the power of the machine you are purchasing, the higher the monthly nut you will have to crack. The higher the power of the machine, the higher the costs for long term maintenance will be. If I were going to buy a laser engraver, I would buy a well known 30 watt system with an engraving area of 24" X 12" or 24" X 18" to 20" range of motion. Knowing what I know now, I would buy a used system! (devil) (devil) (devil) (Oh come on, I couldn't lob that softball into the air without ripping it out of the ballpark. Must be getting to be baseball season.)
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#17]
20 Mar 2007
To: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#6] 20 Mar 2007
Engraving wood is certainly the cheaper way to get started and to learn. Small items like wood ornaments make good practice, but will probably not bring in enough money to pay the monthly bill on the laser. They are a small dollar item and if you sell them directly the profit is not bad, but you probably won't sell many. If you wholesale them you might sell more but the profit is much lower.
Specialty items that sell to a narrow market at much higher prices are much more profitable. But until you can build up sales in those markets you wouldn't have enough sales to pay off the laser.
Many people find that doing quantity products is where you can make the money. Doing specialized items for a local manufacturer (either engraving or cutting), by the hundreds or thousands. Or doing promotional items or any other bulk type of order starts bringing in the money at a nicer pace.
And as was said before, a big part of it is marketing. A laser can produce small items fairly fast, but can you sell them that fast? Since the laser is so expensive (figure spending a minimum of $10k for a used one and the other items to get started, or $15k-$20 for a new one, or even higher for a larger more powerful one). Most people calculate that they must charge $1 or $2 per minute of laser time for the laser to be making any money. So if a nice photo on wood takes 20 minutes, you would have to sell it at at a minimum of $20-$40 to make any money. And if you are wholesaling it then the retail price might have to be 2-3 times that. Not an easy sell. Plus you could produce 20 of those a day, but can you sell that many? I could produce about 200 wood ornaments in a 6 hour day, but I can't sell that many each day.
It might be best to spend some time before getting a laser just sitting down and looking at product ideas. The laser is great at engraving certain materials, and at cutting a subset of those materials. But without an idea of what you can manufacture that would sell at a decent quantity and price, or without knowing who might pay for your marking and cutting services, the laser could end up sitting there losing you money.
From: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#18]
20 Mar 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#17] 21 Mar 2007
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#19]
20 Mar 2007
To: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#18] 20 Mar 2007
EDITED: 20 Mar 2007 by DATAKES
From: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#20]
20 Mar 2007
To: George (GPRIVATEER) [#15] Unread
George,
I am just outside of East Aurora. I know this is an engraving site, but could you privately e-mail me. (pangelp@aol.com) I would like to talk to you about sublimation. I believe you did say you were with Romark.
From: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#21]
20 Mar 2007
To: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#18] 20 Mar 2007
Your Profile is empty so it is hard to give you any direct assisatance but there is an Epilog for sale in NY ..
(JDLASERGIFTS) I am sad to say that I will be closing up shop due to a family illness. I will no longer be able to juggle my full time job and my part time business along with devoting my attention to my family member. I will be selling my Epilog Mini 18 25W(manufactured sept 05) along with the 600 cfm dust collector and 30 psi air compressor. The laser has less than 100 hours on it. If Only serious inquiries please!
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#22]
20 Mar 2007
To: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#18] 20 Mar 2007
I would not use a laser to cut circles and holes in wood , its a bad tool for cutting wood unless you looking at 200w+ power , a small overhead router or shop bot would be better. You get charring and it dirties up the laser big time with vaporised resins or glues
In terms of what you could do , well 20-30 an hour would be reasonable with loading and unloading etc , say 200-250 a day.
But that depends on the wood and its thickness.
I run Gcc machines and am pretty happy , but all lasers do the same thing anyway so buy based on service and nearbye support not brand.
As I said , as a compliment to your embroidery , you cant go that far wrong with a nice 30 w system.
I would really try make a push into lasers and fabrics. We have cut a lot of diverse fabrics with ours and i can see how they can fit in with embroidery We have cut and engraved
Faux leather , faux suede , suede , leather, , polyesters , fleeces , denim , flock , aplique, lace , cotton , baise , felt , foams , t shirting material , leatherboard
There are not many ppl specializing in this and it can be a nice profitable niche market.
From: UncleSteve [#23]
20 Mar 2007
To: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#20] 20 Mar 2007
Sublimation is a small part of what the "etc." is in our name...... :-)
We even have a "Digital/Dye Sub" folder! :D
Many of our members do combination products/projects such as the sublimated plates on placques.... Right Harvey?
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#24]
20 Mar 2007
To: UncleSteve [#23] 20 Mar 2007
Engraving Etc.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#25]
20 Mar 2007
To: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#20] 20 Mar 2007
Patti,
This is primarily an engraving site, but the reason I named it "Engraving Etc." was to encompass all the processes currently being used in today's modern awards and engraving establishments, which are included in the long list of folders you see, on the left-hand side of your screen.
One of those folders is pertaing to dye sublimation and other forms of digital imagining.
If you think a person with over seven years experience in that field and a person who has performed an ARA presentation on "Sublimation Equipment and Supplies" could be of any use, I'd be happy to answer your questions. :-)
Edit: Oops! I should have read all the posts, in this thread, before making mine. :B
EDITED: 20 Mar 2007 by DGL
From: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#26]
20 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#25] 21 Mar 2007
I have to tell you I have looked for a forum like this for engraving for quite some time now and when I seen engraving on the left ....I never continued to scroll down..... Duh? Ha!
Wow... you guys truly cover it all. I think you probably are qualified
(ha ha) to talk about sublimation and I do have questions. I will go to the sublimation folder though...
See you there!
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#27]
20 Mar 2007
To: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#18] 20 Mar 2007
Patti,
That is good, but again, I would state that as a relative newbie myself, (three years) I seriously regret NOT buying a more powerful laser......I like to think of it as buying a little more tool than you need, and growing into it, as opposed to buying less tool now, then realizing that "if" you had a little more power, you could do this, or you could do that.
You are on the right track and you will be AMAZED once you get started at what you can do.....
just my two cents...want change?
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#28]
20 Mar 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#27] 20 Mar 2007
Chuck,
I would agree with that. I've worked my way through a couple of 30-watt machines over the past years and will be looking at a 40-50 watt the next go-around, which is coming sooner than later. The main reason for more speed is it will allow me to cut 1/4" acrylic faster and with a cleaner edge.
From: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#29]
20 Mar 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#27] 20 Mar 2007
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#30]
20 Mar 2007
To: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#29] 20 Mar 2007
Patti
Patti,
Thank you for your kind words, however my advice is worth exactly what you paid for it. ( insert laugh here).
That is just the lesson that *I* learned based on my experience....so it is something for you to only take into consideration as you work toward your decision.
Regardless, we will all be here for you as you grow.......good luck and keep us posted.....so to speak ;-)
From: Randy (RANDALL) [#31]
21 Mar 2007
To: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#1] 21 Mar 2007
Patti,
I am the territory manager for Gravograph in Southern California and new to this forum. And yes "I am a salesman. That being said I will offer you my opinion. I have worked with the Embroider Me franchise and adding engraving to their business has been huge interest. When and if you decide to purchase either a rotary engraving machine or a laser engraver put as much emphasis on the person you are buying from as you do on the machine you are purchasing. You need to know you will have support after the sale. There are no machines that magically do something different then others. Kick the tires check the engine and buy from someone you feel will be there for you if you have a problem.
Randy
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#32]
21 Mar 2007
To: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#18] 21 Mar 2007
OK, 14,000 pieces would be a serious sized order. When you said "ornaments" I was imagining him trying to sell bags of them to local retail stores.
For that size order I personally would probably not cut them with the laser. I would either farm the whole thing out, or I would buy the wood already cut into circles. Their are sources for buying wood circles in that size.
The hole in most ornaments for hanging them can be drilled in a drill press, doing several at a time in a little fixture you make, or those could be cut on the laser at the same time you engrave. Using pre-cut circles would save a fair amount of time making the ornaments, and the edges would be clean instead of brown from lasering.
It also speeds up the whole process because you would make a pair of fixtures to fit in the laser to hold the circles. One that is holding the ones currently being lasered, and the other one is being unloaded and reloaded for the next batch. Plus the fixture can utilize the entire bed of the laser, while most thin woods come in sheet widths that only partially fill the bed (ie: 6" or 8" wide sheets) unless you use thin plywood, which usually costs more.
On the other hand, depending on the look you are after, you may want to clear coat the wood first, and that is easier to do with sheets than loose circles.
Lots of choices and trade-offs.
From: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#33]
21 Mar 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#32] 22 Mar 2007
Dave,
I am sorry you lost me when you said " a pair of fixtures"? Is that something already made or is the some 'jig" that is created to hold the circles? I am new to this engraving - sorry.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#34]
21 Mar 2007
To: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#33] 21 Mar 2007
Basically you set up the job with cutouts for the circles, then put the message properly inside the circles.
You then cut out a sheet of something thin, like 1/8 plywood. (Circles only.) Back this with maple plywood to prevent it from warping and also giving a back to the jig.
You then put your circular pieces in the holes and send out only the engraving part of the layout. (Be sure to save a copy or the cutout file to use as a template for later runs.)
From: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#35]
21 Mar 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#34] 21 Mar 2007
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