Full Version: Sublimation?
From: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#1]
20 Mar 2007
To: ALL
Mark,
I think I am in the right folder now...ha ha. Anyways, here it goes. I know we were talking about laser engravers and 14,000 ornaments that I needed to create. Other than the big cost difference between the laser machine and the inkjet - could you just share (generally speaking) which would be more productive ( less work) and cost effective. I was at a trade show in Atlantic City and was pretty impressed with sublimation and what you could create with a little imagination. I could not justify buying the machine until now - when this light just went on (in my head) - regarding these ornaments that a client is looking for. The ornaments do not have to be fancy...but I want them to look professional! Is this the less expensive road...I know the inks are not cheap. I have also heard horror stories about the ink getting clogged up without continued use. Is there a big learning curve to this? (I also have Corel Draw X3) I can't seem to remember the process ...but do you actually print in out on special paper and then heat apply it to your item? (I have a heat press).
Thanks for taking the time to read this ...I have no ideas how you keep up with this site....wow..nice job!
EDITED: 21 Mar 2007 by HARVEY-ONLY
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#2]
21 Mar 2007
To: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#1] 21 Mar 2007
Patti, if you are looking primarily for a system to do full color transfer to a plastic of some sort ornament, I would look at OEM Laser Transfer.
Inexpensive to get into, printers are in the $300 range, uses the toner that it comes with, no jet clogging, no color match headaches, no need for coated substrate.....
I would think there has been some posts here about OEM Laser, if not though, a sister forum DSSI, reachable from the "links of interest" box in the upper right hand corner, has had many discussions about it.
Doug
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3]
21 Mar 2007
To: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#1] 21 Mar 2007
What substrate do you plan to use for the ornaments?
Process aside, when I see 14,000 pcs. I immediately think of outsourcing.
If laser engraved wood, you have an excellent laser production facility, in the way of Northeast Laser, located in Monroe, Connecticut.
www.northeastlaser.com
They have equipment that would mark the ornaments in seconds, as opposed to minutes, making their price one that gives you room to mark them up.
If you use sublimation as the method, in those numbers, (even if you press the pieces yourself) it would make sense to have the transfers litho printed.
You would receive the transfers in sheets. That only works well if the image will be identical.
From: Carl (CSEWELL) [#4]
21 Mar 2007
To: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#1] 21 Mar 2007
See attached image of OEM transfer on a wooden nickel (see supplier ad on this forum also).
{Do I get bonus points for selling two suppliers in one post?}
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#5]
21 Mar 2007
To: Patti (ENGRAVINGHELP) [#1] 21 Mar 2007
Patti,
I agree with David L. If you are talking THAT many ornaments, outsource them....this is something that could be done for you by an Ad Specialty supplier.....
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#6]
21 Mar 2007
To: Carl (CSEWELL) [#4] 21 Mar 2007
From: Carl (CSEWELL) [#7]
21 Mar 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#6] 21 Mar 2007
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#8]
21 Mar 2007
To: Carl (CSEWELL) [#7] 21 Mar 2007
Carl,
You DID see Forest Gump didn't you? It was meant completely as a compliment.
I would have NEVER thought to use OEM transfer on wood....and now my mind is agog......with ideas....
Brilliant man......simply Brilliant.
From: Carl (CSEWELL) [#9]
21 Mar 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#8] 21 Mar 2007
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#10]
21 Mar 2007
To: Carl (CSEWELL) [#9] 21 Mar 2007
I do and I will.
How long and at what temp do you press them? What do you sell them for?
From: Carl (CSEWELL) [#11]
21 Mar 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#10] 21 Mar 2007
As with the first one, plaque on the bottom, then the transfer, then 1/8" silicone pad, then teflon sheet. I probably won't need the top teflon sheet since I got a larger silicone pad. And make sure you pre-heat the silicone pad! It took me a while to figure that little tidbit out.
From the limited number of samples that I've run, press pressure seems to be a critical factor. On larger items, Mick advises to rotate the 'assembly' and repress to make sure you get a good transfer (Mick, please correct me if I misspoke).
Are customized license plates (front plates) big down there? You might try Mick's paper on license plates.
And if you haven't tried Mick's fabric paper, you might want to try that: t-shirt, mouse pads, clothing, etc. Mouse pads are fast and pretty much a no-brainer. A local t-shirt shop has tested a few shirts (100% cotton) that I provided to them and they are REAL interested for short runs, and pre-sells, and post-production runs ("Oh, I need one more of the 6-color, which takes you two-hours to set up."). The limitations on t-shirts are the shirt color and the overall transfer size. Some of the shirt color bleeds through on the lighter transfer colors and people tend to like large images (larger than 8-1/2"), although you can print multiple transfer sheets if you can find a good break in the artwork (between image and text, for example).
I've also had some successes with lacquered coated brass, but I didn't find the perfect settings before I ran out of samples. I'm leery of this application......
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#12]
21 Mar 2007
To: Carl (CSEWELL) [#11] 21 Mar 2007
With my Konica/Minolta and standard lacquered silver and gold engraving aluminum I use:
340*;
2 minutes;
High pressure;
Peel when a little warm, not hot to the touch not room temperature.
From: Carl (CSEWELL) [#13]
21 Mar 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#12] 21 Mar 2007
Do you use the silicon pad over the transfer (which is over the object)?
Do you use a cooling plate?
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#14]
21 Mar 2007
To: Carl (CSEWELL) [#13] 21 Mar 2007
Yes I do use a silicon pad. It is a necessity to allow even heating and pressure when transferring. It adds time to the pressing but eliminates those really nasty voids of color.
On Acrylic I also use an additional silicon sheet against the transfer to prevent the irregularities of the foam sheet from showing in the acrylic if the pressure is a bit too much or the time is a little too much. It is a cookie sheet. You can find some that are smooth and some with a grain. Use the smooth ones only or you will get the grain pattern in the acrylic.
From: Carl (CSEWELL) [#15]
21 Mar 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#14] 21 Mar 2007
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#16]
21 Mar 2007
To: Carl (CSEWELL) [#15] 21 Mar 2007
A Teflon sheet should work, as long as it is not woven then coated. That would give it a grain that will be transferred.
The cookie sheets are usually thicker also which helps prevent irregularities from the foam to get through.
From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#17]
21 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3] 21 Mar 2007
WOW! Great resource.....I drive through Monroe on the way home every night!
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18]
21 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#17] 21 Mar 2007
I met the owner, Rich Rossellini, at an L.A. area trade show. Very ambitious and knowledgeable about laser technology.
From: Rolf (RJB2108) [#19]
22 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3] 22 Mar 2007
David,
When you say litho printed, do you have any idea who might do that?
I have an order for 1400 mouspads and was thinking of having someone else print my transfers rather than me using my Epson 3000.
Thank you for your help.
Hope you have a nice day!
Rolf
Oh, the other question would be, would I have to use sublimation mousepads?
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#20]
22 Mar 2007
To: Rolf (RJB2108) [#19] 22 Mar 2007
I'd take that idea a step further and have an ad specialty company take the job from start to finish.
I had some done a few years ago and other than a $75 set up charge, the printed pads almost cost less than what blanks would have run.
There may be suppliers closer to you, but Golden Express, located in Oxnard, CA did a good job for me.
In answer to your original question, I used to know of a company who printed high-volume sublimation transfers, but the name escapes me.
I think Mick may know of that company, or at least another who does that type of work.
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