Full Version: Hold downs for scissors...
From: Brett (BHALLE) [#1]
23 Mar 2007
To: ALL
Looking, hopefully, for the wisdom and guidance of more experienced engravers. I have a Xenetech 2525 with a t-slot table. I typically do flat stock or items that can be easily held in a centering vise (tags, mediallions, etc.). A friend of mine asked me to do a number of different sized scissors -- drag engraving some initials. Seemed like an easy enough task until I started to think about how to hold the darn things. They are not well suited to standard techniques used for tags, medallions, etc. as they are not consistently shaped.
They aren't flat, they aren't symmetrical ...
Any ideas as to how one holds these down for drag engraving? I have 7 of them and they are all different sizes and shapes.
Thank you in advance for any ideas you can throw my way.
Scratching my head,
--Brett
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#2]
23 Mar 2007
To: Brett (BHALLE) [#1] 23 Mar 2007
Basically, you can use a jig meant to hold fairly thick, rectangular objects:
You'll need to create a ledge, (small piece or pieces of plastic engraving stock) one side of the jig, in order to tilt the angled part of the blade to make the engravable area as flat as possible.
Clamp the widest part of the blade in the jig and build shims (plastic stock) in areas toward the thinner end of the blade, to keep the blade from wiggling, during the engraving process.
That's the on-the-fly method.
If you had a steady supply of scissors, it would be worth fashioning custom jigs from acrylic, metal or Delrin, either on your own, or with the help of a machine shop.
EDITED: 23 Mar 2007 by DGL
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#3]
23 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#2] 23 Mar 2007
Use a wood or plastic block, open the scissors all the way and clamp the blade to be engraved to the block with small C clamps and put the block into your vise.
It's easier if you can take them apart.
EDITED: 23 Mar 2007 by MIKEN
From: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#4]
23 Mar 2007
To: Brett (BHALLE) [#1] 23 Mar 2007
Find someone with a laser..........
wait....... you have a laser........why not Cermark them
EDITED: 23 Mar 2007 by PENINSULATROPHY
From: John (ICTJOHN) [#5]
23 Mar 2007
To: Brett (BHALLE) [#1] 23 Mar 2007
Use the "hot glue" method to make a mold which will hold them secure enough to keep from wigglin' while you engrave them. Do a search for a previous discussion or let me know and I can explain in further detail.
The only drawback to this method is, you will need to make a mold for each scissor style.
;-)
From: UncleSteve [#6]
23 Mar 2007
To: John (ICTJOHN) [#5] 24 Mar 2007
From: Brett (BHALLE) [#7]
23 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#2] 23 Mar 2007
Thanks for the suggestions. The challenge I'm running into is that these are 7 different scissors so fashioning a jig (which is what I would be normally inclined to do) will be different for each scissor. These are extremely nice sewing scissors and range in size from small (4 inches), thin, narrow, and very pointed to large (10 inches), wide, thick, and blunt ended.
I was hoping there was some magic engravers trick for these things and that I would just be able to respond with a "Duh, why didn't I think of that?" This is feeling more and more like a stunt engraving exercise that is going to involve lots-o-tape and no elegance at all. :-)
--Brett
From: Brett (BHALLE) [#8]
23 Mar 2007
To: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#4] 24 Mar 2007
Thought about the Cermark approach. Unfortunately, with the extreme range of scissors I am worried that the very small delicate ones will not respond well to the intense laser needed to ensure a good Cermark bond. The larger scissors would go very well but I've seen tiny delicate metal react to the heat of the laser and warp -- these are very fancy sewing scissors and I could easily end up destroying them.
A diamond drag would allow for a consistent look for all the scissors. It's a more elegant look as well.
I am expecting to get my FiberMark soon and might just end up waiting for that ... I can at least sneak up on the laser power levels.
This is one of those projects I thought was going to be easy but, SURPRISE, nope!
Thanks for the advice!
--Brett
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#9]
23 Mar 2007
To: Brett (BHALLE) [#7] 23 Mar 2007
The "hot glue mold" technique may be the overall winner, of the suggestions you've received.
Other than scissors, gold clubs, because of their different lofts, have been another ticklish engraving job for me.
Similar to scissors.
From: Brett (BHALLE) [#10]
23 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#9] 23 Mar 2007
Agreed, the hot glue mold is probably the best option. I was thinking that some form of mold would be good for this but there aren't many one-off molding materials for this kind of situation.
Play-doh seems like a possible approach but it gives too much for a drag engraving ... I think the piece would slip -- Play-doh is better for laser operations where there is no physical contact / movement.
Silly putty comes to mind as a possibility as it's more solid than Play-doh. Don't know how well it would hold it's shape, though.
The hot glue approach is interesting but I suspect it's going to take a few attempts per scissor to get it right. There will need to be multiple points of contact to hold it solid and at the right angles, etc.
Thanks again for the help,
--Brett
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#11]
23 Mar 2007
To: Brett (BHALLE) [#10] 23 Mar 2007
With a big enough "glob" of glue, you should be able to press a scissor blade into it and make a secure mold. Most of the pressure, brought to bear during diamond-drag engraving, is downward and not so much lateral.
From: James (TILER02) [#12]
23 Mar 2007
To: ALL
From: logojohn [#13]
23 Mar 2007
To: Brett (BHALLE) [#1] 24 Mar 2007
fits the all graphics vice
if you turn it upside down.Not sure if they still sell them but I bought one about 8 years ago.
It has a slot at one end instead of a fixed hole with a thumb screw to adjust the angle to fit tapered items.
I have also removed the pegs from one side of both jaws of the vice and used a regular plate holding jig. Without the peg the jig will swivel to fit the shape of the slanted item. Many times it will tighten enough to securely hold the item. Sometimes for steep slants you may need to rig a way to block it from moving or adding a little tape to the jig edges so it doesn't slide out.
If it is not too much of an angle you might be able to just wrap some tape around the narrow end so it can be held in any non adjustable vice. Here it is on there site. They call it a flatware jig. http://www.gravograph.com/usa/Engraving%20Products/Jigs.php
EDITED: 23 Mar 2007 by LOGOJOHN
From: BobT [#14]
24 Mar 2007
To: Brett (BHALLE) [#1] 24 Mar 2007
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#15]
24 Mar 2007
To: BobT [#14] 24 Mar 2007
Bondo (automotive, body shop staple) molds have also been suggested, in the past, as a means of holding unruly objects.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#16]
24 Mar 2007
To: ALL
From: UncleSteve [#17]
24 Mar 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#16] 24 Mar 2007
Thanks for one of the least expensive, reusable, easy to find solutions to what is a more common problem than one would expect. :D