Full Version: OEM isn't specific
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#1]
23 Mar 2007
To: ALL
I have one also and it is the use of the term OEM on this forum with respect to printers/heat transfers.
In this instance what we are talking about specifically, are color laser printers from Okidata and Konica-Minolta and the toners that come with them and which can be purchased at office supply stores.
OEM parts/toner etc. refers to the items or supplies provided by the manufacturer with the printer.
My Panasonic has OEM toner for example, it also has an oil fuser, which is the culprit with respect to adherence to hard surfaces, but the toner is not the same as these brands and perhaps others.
I sense also that there may be confusion about color laser transfers, color laser sublimation and ink jet sublimation. I may be wrong on this but it seems that definitions might be in order---maybe they exist and I haven't found them.
From: UncleSteve [#2]
23 Mar 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#1] 23 Mar 2007
Great idea to set up a glossary page for the various terms used in engraving and related processes.
OEM specifically stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer. Thus refering to what came with or can be obtained from the BRAND on the equipment... not always the actual manufacturer of the equipment since much is "private labeled" nowdays.
From: Carl (CSEWELL) [#3]
23 Mar 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#1] 24 Mar 2007
I agree that the usage is a little loose, but can we really expect people to type:
The transfer of images to non-specially coated OEM substrates by employing an OEM heat press, from images created by a laser fusion process on specialty OEM paper (provided by Cactus Equipment or JBL) with OEM laser printers that is restricted to certain models of OKIDATA and Konica color laser printers and toners.
I-) :O
OEM Laser Transfer: I think the words that make up the definition are there for a reason. OEM laser: tells me that it is an off-the-shelf laser printer, which includes the toner cartridges. Transfer: in-direct printing. To me, the definition is there, but, you are right, there's a lot of underlying meaning to the words.
We also use the term LASER very loosely and someone from outside this industry might get a totally different picture from our posts. Just because I have a laser doesn't mean I can cut 1/4" steel plate with it. There are specifics to every process and a title can never do justice to the intricacies of the process.
I also agree that a definitions/terminology page would be helpful as a reference guide. It would also be tremendous if all the technology terms used on this forum would have a mouse-over pop-up with the definition!
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#4]
24 Mar 2007
To: Carl (CSEWELL) [#3] 24 Mar 2007
I was using Color Laser Toner transfer (CLTT) for a while in the beginning, then the paper manufacturer(s) started using OEM so I went with that.
With it being brand specific also is a problem.
A dictionary giving the specifics may be a good idea, and will change often as these processes grow.
I would hate to add a 'Dictionary' folder, we have so many already, but it could be helpful.
From: Carl (CSEWELL) [#5]
24 Mar 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#4] 24 Mar 2007
That's generic enough for me!
From: UncleSteve [#6]
24 Mar 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#4] 24 Mar 2007
No need for a folder..... a simple link to a database that can be updated and alphabetized would do just fine... :D
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#7]
24 Mar 2007
To: UncleSteve [#6] 24 Mar 2007
From: UncleSteve [#8]
24 Mar 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#7] 24 Mar 2007
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#9]
24 Mar 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#1] 24 Mar 2007
The problem is that the use of many terms is context specific, but a bigger problem is that the common terms are usually set by a small number of people that write articles or advertising. The rest of us then get stuck with those terms.
People want to simplify statements so they are faster to read and write, but the drawback is that information is left out and the reader must fill in the blanks, right or wrong.
When somebody says "sublimation" are they talking ink-jet, toner, or both? Usually both, but sometimes they're talking specifically about ink-jet printers.
When people say "laser" they might mean laser printer, CO2 laser engraver, high power CO2, or YAG, Fiber, etc... The reader usually has to make an assumption based on the context. But somebody new to the field could easilly make the wrong assumption.
The same is true with the OEM toner discussions. If somebody does their research they find the specifics (ie: non-oil based toners). But somebody not familiar with the process doesn't know that. The main reason to use a simple term such as OEM, whether truely accurate or not, is to have a simple way to distinguish laser toner transfers using the printer's standard toners vs using specially manufactured sublimation toners.
Saying OEM toner transfer distinguishes that process from sublimation toner, but it doesn't give all the specifics of which laser printers you can use. Just like saying "ink-jet sublimation" doesn't tell you that you can only use specific ink-jet printers.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#10]
24 Mar 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#9] 24 Mar 2007
Just kidding---I sensed in reading the various posts that there was confusion relative to the term OEM as it related to printers/heat transfers. I felt that there were some who thought this was a sublimation process, others who felt they could buy Mick's paper and they'd be home free and some who were unsure of Al LaCosta's process because it used the same printers as in other discussions.
I was merely raising the issue in hopes that the air could be cleared and no misunderstandings would ensue.
From: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#11]
24 Mar 2007
To: UncleSteve [#8] 24 Mar 2007
From: UncleSteve [#12]
24 Mar 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#10] 24 Mar 2007
Since there IS so much confusion, I am very happy that you broached the subject.
All we can do in the forum is try to separate the wheat from the chaff and clarify what ever we can.... And what "we" can't, it is up to the original poster to clarify for us.
From: UncleSteve [#13]
24 Mar 2007
To: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#11] 24 Mar 2007
From: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#14]
24 Mar 2007
To: UncleSteve [#13] 24 Mar 2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki
and here is the software page:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki
EDITED: 24 Mar 2007 by LASER_IMAGE
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#15]
24 Mar 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#10] 24 Mar 2007
I agree that there is a lot of confusion, and you bringing it up is a good thing. I'm not sure trying to use different terminology will help much, since the terms we use are really being defined by others outside the forum. But I do think that there needs to be more details about the processes discussed to try and clear up the confusion.
I've been very curious about OEM toner transfers myself, and I think I've been paying attention to the details people have posted. But I still get confused when one person says how durable their print was and another says they're not. I assume the differences are in the actual brands of printer/toner. Comparing results from different brands or using different combinations of heat, pressure, substrate, etc... In other words, those of us not doing it do need more info about it.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#16]
24 Mar 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#15] 24 Mar 2007
You're right and I think Harvey made some good points on another thread yesterday. My color laser printer uses an oil fuser. Harvey says that this is the reason the finish I get is so delicate. It is an outstanding graphic but can't be used on name tags and mugs for example. Some models, but not all, of the Okidata and Konica-Minolta do not use an oil fuser. This apparently changes the make up of the toner and makes it harder and adhere better. I've seen Mick's samples and his image quality matches what I get with the Panasonic yet his finish is more durable.
Al La Costa's toners are for the Okidata 3200 and they are sublimation toners. They must be purchased in addition to those that come with the printer. If you want to use his white toner then it is necessary to buy two of the 3200 printers.
Dye sublimation transfer requires a polymer substrate.
Dye sublimation using an Epson ink jet printer is another process but has the same substrate and heat press requirements.
Color laser transfer can be applied to virtually any substrate. A heat press is required for both.
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#17]
24 Mar 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#16] 24 Mar 2007
Mike, only one, minor correction to your post.
It is not mandatory to have two printers to use Al's white coating process, just more convenient. One can change out the toner carts.
I'm still confused if one HAS to use the more expensive sublimation toner along with the white coating or if the OEM laser toners will work.
Doug
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#18]
24 Mar 2007
To: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#17] 24 Mar 2007
I was under the impression that 2 printers were required.
I don't know how you could combine sublimation with color laser transfer but I'm sure we'll get an answer which will be good information to have.
White is definitely on the horizon in all printing applications for our industry. That is probably enough reason for me to hold off on the purchase of a new printer for the time being.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#19]
24 Mar 2007
To: UncleSteve [#13] 24 Mar 2007
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#20]
24 Mar 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#19] 25 Mar 2007
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