Full Version: OEM isn't specific
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#4]
24 Mar 2007
To: Carl (CSEWELL) [#3] 24 Mar 2007
I was using Color Laser Toner transfer (CLTT) for a while in the beginning, then the paper manufacturer(s) started using OEM so I went with that.
With it being brand specific also is a problem.
A dictionary giving the specifics may be a good idea, and will change often as these processes grow.
I would hate to add a 'Dictionary' folder, we have so many already, but it could be helpful.
From: Carl (CSEWELL) [#5]
24 Mar 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#4] 24 Mar 2007
That's generic enough for me!
From: UncleSteve [#6]
24 Mar 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#4] 24 Mar 2007
No need for a folder..... a simple link to a database that can be updated and alphabetized would do just fine... :D
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#7]
24 Mar 2007
To: UncleSteve [#6] 24 Mar 2007
From: UncleSteve [#8]
24 Mar 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#7] 24 Mar 2007
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#9]
24 Mar 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#1] 24 Mar 2007
The problem is that the use of many terms is context specific, but a bigger problem is that the common terms are usually set by a small number of people that write articles or advertising. The rest of us then get stuck with those terms.
People want to simplify statements so they are faster to read and write, but the drawback is that information is left out and the reader must fill in the blanks, right or wrong.
When somebody says "sublimation" are they talking ink-jet, toner, or both? Usually both, but sometimes they're talking specifically about ink-jet printers.
When people say "laser" they might mean laser printer, CO2 laser engraver, high power CO2, or YAG, Fiber, etc... The reader usually has to make an assumption based on the context. But somebody new to the field could easilly make the wrong assumption.
The same is true with the OEM toner discussions. If somebody does their research they find the specifics (ie: non-oil based toners). But somebody not familiar with the process doesn't know that. The main reason to use a simple term such as OEM, whether truely accurate or not, is to have a simple way to distinguish laser toner transfers using the printer's standard toners vs using specially manufactured sublimation toners.
Saying OEM toner transfer distinguishes that process from sublimation toner, but it doesn't give all the specifics of which laser printers you can use. Just like saying "ink-jet sublimation" doesn't tell you that you can only use specific ink-jet printers.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#10]
24 Mar 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#9] 24 Mar 2007
Just kidding---I sensed in reading the various posts that there was confusion relative to the term OEM as it related to printers/heat transfers. I felt that there were some who thought this was a sublimation process, others who felt they could buy Mick's paper and they'd be home free and some who were unsure of Al LaCosta's process because it used the same printers as in other discussions.
I was merely raising the issue in hopes that the air could be cleared and no misunderstandings would ensue.
From: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#11]
24 Mar 2007
To: UncleSteve [#8] 24 Mar 2007
From: UncleSteve [#12]
24 Mar 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#10] 24 Mar 2007
Since there IS so much confusion, I am very happy that you broached the subject.
All we can do in the forum is try to separate the wheat from the chaff and clarify what ever we can.... And what "we" can't, it is up to the original poster to clarify for us.
From: UncleSteve [#13]
24 Mar 2007
To: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#11] 24 Mar 2007
From: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#14]
24 Mar 2007
To: UncleSteve [#13] 24 Mar 2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki
and here is the software page:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki
EDITED: 24 Mar 2007 by LASER_IMAGE
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#15]
24 Mar 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#10] 24 Mar 2007
I agree that there is a lot of confusion, and you bringing it up is a good thing. I'm not sure trying to use different terminology will help much, since the terms we use are really being defined by others outside the forum. But I do think that there needs to be more details about the processes discussed to try and clear up the confusion.
I've been very curious about OEM toner transfers myself, and I think I've been paying attention to the details people have posted. But I still get confused when one person says how durable their print was and another says they're not. I assume the differences are in the actual brands of printer/toner. Comparing results from different brands or using different combinations of heat, pressure, substrate, etc... In other words, those of us not doing it do need more info about it.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#16]
24 Mar 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#15] 24 Mar 2007
You're right and I think Harvey made some good points on another thread yesterday. My color laser printer uses an oil fuser. Harvey says that this is the reason the finish I get is so delicate. It is an outstanding graphic but can't be used on name tags and mugs for example. Some models, but not all, of the Okidata and Konica-Minolta do not use an oil fuser. This apparently changes the make up of the toner and makes it harder and adhere better. I've seen Mick's samples and his image quality matches what I get with the Panasonic yet his finish is more durable.
Al La Costa's toners are for the Okidata 3200 and they are sublimation toners. They must be purchased in addition to those that come with the printer. If you want to use his white toner then it is necessary to buy two of the 3200 printers.
Dye sublimation transfer requires a polymer substrate.
Dye sublimation using an Epson ink jet printer is another process but has the same substrate and heat press requirements.
Color laser transfer can be applied to virtually any substrate. A heat press is required for both.
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#17]
24 Mar 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#16] 24 Mar 2007
Mike, only one, minor correction to your post.
It is not mandatory to have two printers to use Al's white coating process, just more convenient. One can change out the toner carts.
I'm still confused if one HAS to use the more expensive sublimation toner along with the white coating or if the OEM laser toners will work.
Doug
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#18]
24 Mar 2007
To: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#17] 24 Mar 2007
I was under the impression that 2 printers were required.
I don't know how you could combine sublimation with color laser transfer but I'm sure we'll get an answer which will be good information to have.
White is definitely on the horizon in all printing applications for our industry. That is probably enough reason for me to hold off on the purchase of a new printer for the time being.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#19]
24 Mar 2007
To: UncleSteve [#13] 24 Mar 2007
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#20]
24 Mar 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#19] 25 Mar 2007
From: logojohn [#21]
25 Mar 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#15] 25 Mar 2007
We do sublimation with a c88 and a hobby press. It works fantastic on most items with the special surface that is required. After using the sawgrass inks and power driver color matching is no longer a problem. My only complaint with ijsublimation is the micro dots visible when using white frp or white sublimation metal and no background image or color.
We are trying the laser OEM transfer with a Konica Minolta and all 3 brands of transfer paper. So far, the results are not as predictable as ijsublimation. I have had the best results with the Magic Touch paper. I like the way it bubbles up and releases itself as it cools leaving the ink on the item.
Even then with cleaning the item beforehand and using a silicone pad, it is not unusual for small areas of the ink to not adhere.
I think part of the problem is the cheap heat press which we may replace soon.
Basically for silver, gold or copper aluminum and items on white with a background color or image, I prefer the ijsublimation. (we charge enough so the higher ink cost is not the deciding factor.) The results are predictable and rejects are rare. I am confident the image will not come off.
For items on white without a color background or image I prefer OEM laser transfer mainly because of the ugly micro dots the ijsublimation leaves with the c88 printer. I just did 60 2" white metal discs printed and pressed at the same time with 15 per page. An average of 2 per page had small areas where the toner did not stick. I cleaned them first and rotated them half way through. The good ones survived a moderate scratch test but I am not confident that they will be as durable as ijsublimation.
For badges I have started using the 1/8 thick single color white engraving plastic used as the substrate for ada signage. I don't use the 1/16 as the heat and dwell time needed causes excess warping.
I profile the badge blanks for these on the rotary engraver so I can do any size and shape and have a slight bevel. This is much better than profiling the frp since frp causes irritating dust and even clogs the paper filter bag in the vacuum in a short time.
The OEM transfer leaves no colored background dots like the c88sublimation. The heat from the press actually slightly rounds the edges for almost a dome type effect. As with the metal, it is also common to have some small areas that the toner doesn't stick to so rejects are common. They pass a moderate scratch test, but I am not as confident that they will hold up as long as ijsublimation.
Maybe I'll get the exact procedure, equipment or whatever perfected sometime. But as of now OEM transfer for me is a lot more prone to problems and durability questions.
IJsublimation is much more foolproof especially in the beginning but of course is limited to items with a special surface
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#22]
25 Mar 2007
To: Carl (CSEWELL) [#3] 25 Mar 2007
Hi Carl,
Perhaps a simple stating of the printer brand or number IE "Oki 3200 Oem laser transfers" would do the most to clear things up for those not in the know......
From: Ray (STAMP) [#23]
26 Mar 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#20] 26 Mar 2007