Full Version: Help with metal image
From: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#1]
30 Mar 2007
To: ALL
Hi all: I need some info, I know someone here, or a lotta people here will know. Me being new, knows little.
A local monument co. that outsources everything has asked me to do a small photo image for them. It appears it is done on stainless or perhaps aluminum. It is a photo, has dots, probably 150 per in, and perhaps 300. Might be anodized on the image side? No black shows through, the whole piece is an image. Is this typically done in aluminum? If so, is it done with cermark or over anodized? The piece appears to be 1/16" thick. All help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike
From: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#2]
30 Mar 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#1] 30 Mar 2007
Would you have an picture of the item you are describing??
It sound like the item is silver in color since you said stainless and no black shows through........ the DPI is 150 to 300 . and you want to use Cermark which is Black..... confused!
The item could have been silkscreened by what you describe..
How large is the item.. Stainless is much heavier compared to aluminum
at 1/16"
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3]
30 Mar 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#1] 30 Mar 2007
You mention that no black shows through, then go on to mention CerMark, as a possible marking technique, (which would create a black, or dark, image).
Is there black on the plate? If so, is it high gloss?
Could be acid etching, which is enamel-filled.
From: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#4]
30 Mar 2007
To: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#2] 30 Mar 2007
After looking at your & Dave's post--I believe it is definately aluminum. Much lighter than if it were in fact stainless. It could be silk screened on--but would that last outside on a headstone? I thought perhaps it was either anodized or someother type of permanent marking. At any rate here's a pic of the piece I have. I scanned it so it may show a little dark, but the background is silver/grey and the image is halftones. Thanks again all.
Mike
From: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#5]
30 Mar 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#4] 30 Mar 2007
I would say the item is anodized aluminum.
Black Granite or marble would weather outside better in my opinion.
From: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#6]
30 Mar 2007
To: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#5] 30 Mar 2007
Mark:
Thanks! Now last question--best sources of supply?
Mike
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#7]
30 Mar 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#4] 30 Mar 2007
From: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#8]
30 Mar 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#6] 30 Mar 2007
What is the actual size of the plate/tile.....
How is the item going to be attached to the monument? Is the place Recessed......
the Granite/Marble Tiles are 3/8" thick would that work?
Trademarkdesignsinc.com is Local (OH) and their work is fast and reasonable.
EDITED: 30 Mar 2007 by PENINSULATROPHY
From: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#9]
30 Mar 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#7] 31 Mar 2007
Dave:
I have looked closely at the image with a 4x lupe, not raised at all. Tried to scrape it off with a razor, didn't touch it. Although it looks like it is screened on, there does not appear to be any ink on the surface. If you blow up the image I attached, you can see the line/dot pattern I am talking about. I have lazered a couple of small images to anodized and the pattern is not the same.
Do you know if one must buy aluminum in sheet stock or can it be purchased cut to size?
Thanks,
Mike
From: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#10]
30 Mar 2007
To: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#8] 31 Mar 2007
Mark:
The piece is 2"x3". I appreciate the link, I think this is who my local company uses. I was hoping I could make these for them instead. They do have instances where I will be making granite inserts for their headstones. Although, one can get a much finer looking image on the hard black marble I don't believe I would use marble. Airborne pollution will ruin marble in a matter of a few years. Also, I would think that if a large part of the marble were lasered, that area would be much more porous. Water, winter and the freeze thaw cycles here would likely be a disaster for marble.
Thanks for you help.
Mike
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#11]
31 Mar 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#9] 31 Mar 2007
Mike,
You can buy aluminum either way. Depending on its thickness, a relatively inexpensive tabletop shear can be used. Material over .050 thick would need to be cut on a much more robust shear.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#12]
31 Mar 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#10] 31 Mar 2007
Thick aluminum can be cut on a table saw with a Non-Ferris high tooth count blade. The one I use for acrylic was made for this purpose.
The one thing left out of the possible scenario is the possibility of masking and using a process similar to acid etching that will turn it black. The low DPI slightly points to that process. Does it look at all weather worn?
EDITED: 31 Mar 2007 by HARVEY-ONLY
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#13]
31 Mar 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#9] 31 Mar 2007
When you laser photos you are probably using a dither pattern rather than a halftone (dither is the default for laser printer drivers in photo mode and is what Photograv uses). That difference would explain why you see the dots patterns as being different from what you get with your laser.
One possibility here is that it is not aluminum, but stainless that has been lasered with a yag. Though I agree that acid etched does also seem likely, but usually that has a bit of depth to it that you should be able to see with a magnifier.
If it was anodized aluminum I would expect the back of the sheet to be black.
From: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#14]
31 Mar 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#12] 31 Mar 2007
Harvey:
Not at all weather worn, but it is a sample piece that my client got from the salesperson who currently does this for them. I should go to the cemetary and see what one of these looks like after a couple of years. I'm going to try cermark I think. Will I be able to get a nice photo image, similar to the ones I can get on anodized? Or is cermark one dark color? Thanks for your time.
Mike
From: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#15]
31 Mar 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#13] 31 Mar 2007
Dave:
This has got me stumped. One would think that acid would be visible under magnification, however, The surface is smoother than the anodized that has been photoengraved by the laser. All of this sounds so labor intense for a small 2x3 pc. that I would think should take all of 15 min to produce. My bro works in the steel industry perhaps time to call him as well. I am almost certain this is aluminum and not stainless.
Thanks for you help.
Mike
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#16]
31 Mar 2007
To: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#15] 2 Apr 2007
It sounds like it may be "MetalPhoto", which is a photo-sensitive anodized aluminum used for making custom nameplates and panels for short run electronic equipment.
http://www.horizonsisg.com/products/metalphoto.asp
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#17]
31 Mar 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#16] 1 Apr 2007
From: Mikey (MIKE2449) [#18]
2 Apr 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#16] 2 Apr 2007
Thanks for the link Dave--I think you are correct, waiting to receive samples now. Thanks again for your time.
Mike