Full Version: Epilog's owner manual!!!
From: nischchi [#1]
4 Apr 2007
To: ALL
I don't understand something!
Why Epilog hides such thing from us!!! When I say "us" I mean us who are owners of Epilog laser systems. We paid a lot of money for their systems and didn't get any serious documentation from them.
I would like to have all documentation for my laser system regarding:
Maintaining, cleaning, changing parts...
All of that PRINTED in full color.
Owner's manual for Epilog is kids stuff. It's emberrassment for us and for them too.
I'm satisfied with my machine but documentation is very, very poor.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#2]
4 Apr 2007
To: nischchi [#1] 4 Apr 2007
Where's yours-your profile is empty.
From: Boz (CHEDDARHEAD) [#3]
5 Apr 2007
To: ALL
Hey Nischchi, I think you are being a little rough on the Epilog folks. The owner's manuals are pretty complete. They might not cover every aspect of maintenance, or repair, but for owner's operation, it has a ton of info in it.
Now, when you have a repair problem, the Epilog Service Techs send really good instructions for removing old parts and replacing them.
Now maybe your needs are different than mine. I work on a number of different systems manufactured by different companies ranging in age from 1996. There is no way I can keep track of all the repair instructions I have received over the years. (That speaks more to my inability to organize anything.) I know I bug the stuffing out of these service techs, but they almost always e-mail, fax or send with the parts very detailed procedures on repairing or refurbishing used laser systems.
Maybe I am a little too lax in my expectations. I bought a new Lund boat a few years ago, and the owner's manual did not even specify the model I bought. Just important tips like: chock the wheels of your trailer when disengaging trailer from tow vehicle on an incline.
From: Epilog_Laser (PECK_SIDARA) [#4]
5 Apr 2007
To: nischchi [#1] 5 Apr 2007
Nischchi,
The owner's manual offers basic machine and driver operation. It is not intended as a service manual. As Cheddarhead has stated, if a replacement part is needed, tech support sends the proper documentation along with the part. Maintenance and cleaning is covered in the manual. What machine do you have? Perhaps there's a newer revision manual available.
Regards,
From: Boz (CHEDDARHEAD) [#5]
5 Apr 2007
To: ALL
From: Epilog_Laser (PECK_SIDARA) [#6]
6 Apr 2007
To: Boz (CHEDDARHEAD) [#5] 6 Apr 2007
Howdy Rob,
Sorry, no phone numbers to pass out today. Maybe Monday.
Have a nice weekend.
:P
From: nischchi [#7]
6 Apr 2007
To: Boz (CHEDDARHEAD) [#3] 6 Apr 2007
Hi,
I don't think you understood me. I just want to be more independent. My tech support is miles away and in some urgent situations I want to act urgent.
BTW all parts I get from my tech support but I never got any documentation regarding "how to change old part with new". All basic and advance things I've picked up from this forum.
One more thing. In this "owner manual" for example they didn't:
1) describe how to clean lens. When I say "clean lens" I mean detail cleaning. How to unmount lens and put it back the right way (which side of the lens is turned down)
2) How to change x-motor.
3) How to change x-belt.
4) How to replace air hose.
5) How to find out if solenoid valve is working properly.
6) How to clean encoder strip (it's not mentioned in owner's manual)!!!
7) How to align laser beam.
... and much more.
My opinion is that kind of manual should have all those explanations.
It's always good to have an option.
For those who aren't so interested in such things it will not be a problem and for us who need it, it would be great help.
I repeat myself once more - my machine is working great (Legend 24TT 35W) but in some situations I need this kind of support.
EDITED: 6 Apr 2007 by NISCHCHI
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#8]
7 Apr 2007
To: nischchi [#7] 7 Apr 2007
This is only a tidbit of the information on your wish list:
http://engravingetc.org/forum/index.php?webtag=EE&msg=5065.10
EDITED: 7 Apr 2007 by DGL
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#9]
7 Apr 2007
To: nischchi [#7] 7 Apr 2007
Machines used to come with a separate maintenance manual years ago.
In this day and age, since they already have the information in a computer readable form, why don't all companies supply a maintenance manual on CD? It sure would save them a heck of a lot of tech time.
They could also make it downloadable in a PDF and still have the ability to make corrections when needed.
From: nischchi [#10]
7 Apr 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#8] 7 Apr 2007
Thank you,
But original idea was to make Epilog to change way of distributing informations to us, owners of their laser system.
I've already found how to clean encoder strip, and also found answers for all those things from my list, but why do I have to badger so much to find that informations!!! Do you agree with me?
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#11]
7 Apr 2007
To: nischchi [#10] 7 Apr 2007
I agree; especially with Harvey's statement.
With the information already at-hand, in PDF form, why not supply equipment owners with a CD, containing that information, instead of providing it, in pieces, by special request?
I'm not singling out Epilog. I think it would be a prudent move on the part of all laser manufacturers.
EDITED: 7 Apr 2007 by DGL
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#12]
7 Apr 2007
To: ALL
I believe the mfrs. are exactly right in providing parts replacement info on an as needed basis.
Maintenance is another matter. If any mfrs. aren't providing maintenance manuals in hard copy or electronically then they deserve all the criticism they get.
I have a Trotec, which I believe to be the best of all the brands, they provide 2 manuals--but, they are in PDF form, which I find much harder to use than hard copies. Besides that they are a little short on content. But for me hard copies are easier.
EDITED: 7 Apr 2007 by MIKEN
From: Sei (SEIMA) [#13]
7 Apr 2007
To: nischchi [#7] 7 Apr 2007
I always wanted such a manual for my New Hermes. I was basically told that no such manual exists because if it was made available they wouldn't be able to make nearly as much money off service calls ($100+ and hour, be it working or travel, and the tech was based 4 hours away).
Universal laser didn't provide any sort of manuals either, but they would at least talk me through any repairs or maintenance that needed to be done.
Not to say Universal was always right when there was a problem. Once I spent over $300 on new parts, including a motor, to fix my rotary attachment at the advice of their support. Turned out the problem was a wire that had managed to come loose.
Sei
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#14]
7 Apr 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#12] 7 Apr 2007
You can print hard copy from a PDF file.
From: nischchi [#15]
7 Apr 2007
To: ALL
Have you noticed that Epilog is ignoring us?
No response from them!!!
PRINT NEW MANUAL (DATAIL MANUAL)!!!
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16]
7 Apr 2007
To: nischchi [#15] 7 Apr 2007
I don't think it's a matter of Epilog ignoring the thread.
Not all Epilog techs are forum members and I wouldn't expect those who are to speak, single-handedly, for upper management.
Easter weekend also makes it an unlikely time to have them make a collective decision, or comment.
EDITED: 7 Apr 2007 by DGL
From: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#17]
7 Apr 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#9] 7 Apr 2007
Harvey,
Some companies do that. The trouble comes from folks like me, who do much better with printed matter.
It's harder / less convenient for me to take my computer to the couch, or to a doctor's waiting room. On the other hand, I've been known to take my owner's manuals to study on trips. I will also study them on the couch, rather than watch television.
Another thing about "soft" manuals is that you must know your search terms. If you don't know to look under "freezer compartment" to find "paper towels", you're pretty much out of luck.
In my opinion, the current Xenetech engraver documentation is terrible. It references switches and knobs that don't exist anymore (since they came out with the Viper). It also tells you to do things in the software that result in an error message stating "that function is not available with Viper software".
To me, there is no substitute for well-written "hard copy" documentation.
I've beaten this subject into a pulp in the past, so I'll put my bat down.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#18]
7 Apr 2007
To: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#17] 7 Apr 2007
I like hard copy better also, but it costs them a lot more, and something is better than nothing.
Gravograph has a hard copy manual, and the same info in the help screens. Beautifully done but very lacking in some ways.
Such as one item where you come up to a screen that shows radio buttons labeled something like:
2D on surface;
Plotter;
3D;
Bore.
In the manual it will say when you come to this screen select from: '2D on surface; Plotter; 3D; Bore'. But what the heck do these selections mean?????? [The example is more explanatory than some of the selections, I just cannot remember the obtuse terms.]
From: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#19]
7 Apr 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#18] 7 Apr 2007
I will admit that there are some areas that Xenetech has done a super job with their HELP files....such as the context-sensitive stuff.
For example, when you press F1 to send a file to the engraver (not really what happens, but it works for the thought process), and click the HELP button, you actually get to select which PART of the "Print" dialog box you need help with. This part is really pretty cool.
Sure it costs money to document what they do. I doubt that the price would go down one red cent if they (ANY manufacturer) did away with all written documentation.
When you buy a new car, why do they supply a written owner's manual? Most new cars come with CD players, so they COULD just supply an audio CD that contained all the info about the car. Why wouldn't that work. I think the answer is pretty obvious.
But why is THIS so much different? (I don't ask that question so that folks can pick out differences.....that doesn't matter. The point is that written documentation is at least as important as "soft" docs).
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#20]
7 Apr 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#14] 8 Apr 2007
For the price I paid they should provide a hard copy--leather bound no less.
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