Full Version: Set up charges
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#1]
11 Apr 2007
To: ALL
Hi Gang,
Today I had the pleasure ( or misfortune, I"m not sure which yet) of doing an assortment of small jobs, with the same logo for the same customer......
The order involved, 12 sublimated coffee mugs, 12 sublimated mouse pads and 12 sublimated key chains. ( I threw in 6 buttons with bulldog clips for good measure as a freebie)
My question is, would you charge for one layout or three? All items had the same logo and artwork, but the layout was obviously different.....
Thoughts?
Thanks
From: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#2]
11 Apr 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#1] 11 Apr 2007
I would charge by the time it took to do the different jobs. Call it setup, artwork prep, etc., it's all the same.
If, for example, it took 15 minutes to setup the first file then 5 minutes each for the rest, then I would probably charge 30 for the first and 10 for each of the rest.
I don't have a "one size fits all" setup charge, I charge by the time it takes to do whatever needs to be done - with a minimum of $20.00.
Gary
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#3]
11 Apr 2007
To: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#2] 11 Apr 2007
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#4]
11 Apr 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#3] 12 Apr 2007
I've left more money on the table by not charging or not charging enough for set up.
Now,after 8 years, I thought I was more wise, but last week it happened again. I quoted a label job using several sizes of labels with different models numbers for each size. I charged by size not looking at the drawings. Turns out every single one of them was a different layout and required a new set up by model.
I under estimated the set up time by more than two hours.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#5]
12 Apr 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#4] 16 Apr 2007
Mike,
This sounds very similar to what I went through yesterday. So what is your solution ?
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#6]
12 Apr 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#5] 12 Apr 2007
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#7]
12 Apr 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#6] 12 Apr 2007
Harvey,
It is the SOLUTION I am interested in. ( insert jab in the ribs laugh here).
I know only to well what the PROBLEM is....... :-(
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#8]
12 Apr 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#7] 12 Apr 2007
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#9]
12 Apr 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#8] 12 Apr 2007
Yeah. Me too :-( ..I would like to get experienced enough to come CLOSE even SOME of the time. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :'-(
From: Becky (KIAIJANE) [#10]
12 Apr 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#9] 12 Apr 2007
Chuck-
I am in the same boat with you. I have a really hard time estimating the time something is going to take either in setting it up, repackaging it, designing it. And I'm still such a newbie, other than mugs and name badges, everything I do is the first time. And I don't do retail so all of my customers want estimates before the work is done.
I would love to have a "rule of thumb" for set-up but I am just not there yet.
When you get there let me know ok? I have a feeling you will be there well ahead of me. LOL
Some day I would love to pick your brain about pricing, but I won't hijack this thread any further than I already have.
And I'm not convinced your brain could handle picking (insert good natured tease here)
B
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#11]
12 Apr 2007
To: Becky (KIAIJANE) [#10] 12 Apr 2007
Becky, anytime you have a spare minute, you can pick my brain. That is about how long it will take. :B
As for the setup charge, I think that the answer is to have a set minimum and then if the job entails different layouts, as is the case with me this time, reduce that rate.
I would think that after awhile, one would develop a lot of templates for different products, so that would cut time considerable. For example, the graphic I was working on yesterday, I could have done a set up fee of say $35.00 for the initial work on the graphic, then $10.00 per product to "plug" it into the new template, or maybe a little more if additional work is needed....I'm getting the hang of this....I think...
I'm not either. There is a pretty good echo in there everytime I say something.....much like talking in a cave. :'-(
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12]
12 Apr 2007
To: Becky (KIAIJANE) [#10] 12 Apr 2007
Becky,
My rule of thumb is to estimate on the high side, or in cases where relative unkowns are involved, give a customer a pricing range, contingent upon the actual degree of difficulty.
Sometimes, the job will go easier than expected and you'll be a hero for coming in under your original estimate.
If you end up having to use the higher end of the price range, at least the customer was prepared for that possibility.
From: Becky (KIAIJANE) [#13]
12 Apr 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12] 12 Apr 2007
David-
That's always been my theory too. Pricing for me (and for many others) is such a struggle. Just when I think have a basic formula nailed down, I try to apply it to a job estimate and the price is either way high or way low (same formula applied to different jobs) I rarely come out with the price I think it "should" be.
So do we have different formulas for different customers/jobs and so on? Not a practical approach...enough to dizzy me.
Becky
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#14]
12 Apr 2007
To: Becky (KIAIJANE) [#13] 12 Apr 2007
Although few would want to openly admit it, I think many of us have special pricing formulas, in that, depending on the volume of work and its regularity as well as the demeanor of the client, we play favorites.
One price doesn't fit all.
In fact, I recently told a slow-paying client exactly that, in so many words.
I said, "Some people pay more and wait longer, by falling off my "A" list. It's easy to remain on the "A" list, by simply paying your bill "close" to the delivery date of the good or services.
This person not only paid up, but included a $50 late payment, for which I never asked.
I think he truly values the service I offer. :-)
From: Vicky (ANDERI) [#15]
12 Apr 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#14] 13 Apr 2007
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#16]
13 Apr 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12] 13 Apr 2007
It may depend on the type of customer, or the type of business, but a lot of the time when I give customers an estimate that covers a range, they seem to only hear the low number in the range.
For example if I say something will cost $75-$100 and it ends up costing $100, they often say "but I thought you said it would be $75?"
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#17]
13 Apr 2007
To: Vicky (ANDERI) [#15] 13 Apr 2007
Vicky,
My customer base is comprised mainly of people I've been working with for years. This person was one of that group and I've never had a problem getting paid promptly.
His payments for the last few transactions, were increasingly getting further away from my delivery date. There was a pattern emerging.
I'm a laid back guy. My customers know and appreciate that.
It's when they see my demeanor as a weakness or a reason to move me to the "pay whenever" pile, that I occasionally have to step out of character and let them know I'm not the person to move to the back burner.
With new customers, I get deposits if there are materials to buy and I get paid at the time of delivery.
EDITED: 13 Apr 2007 by DGL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18]
13 Apr 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#16] 13 Apr 2007
It's true; people have selective hearing. :-)
I usually have an exact quote for my work. It's when I come across an unknown, where I have no idea how long a job will take, that I give a price range.
If it's an unknown to me, chances are it's unknown to most engravers and I'm their last hope for getting the job done.
I usually get my price or get out of a tedious task. Either is fine.
From: Vicky (ANDERI) [#19]
13 Apr 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#17] 13 Apr 2007
Maybe I'm just not tough enough. :-$
I find that large-ish corporations don't have an issue with set-up fees, because they're used to them. The individual or smaller companies, though, balk at them. As a result, I've gotten into the habit of working them into the overall price so the customer doesn't realize they're paying for my set-up time.
Deposits are the same deal. Large companies are OK with them. Smaller companies or individuals don't like putting money out up front. They want to see the final product before they pay for it. This is becoming a bit of an issue for me. I can ill-afford to turn away customers right now, but I can't afford to chase down the deadbeats, either. What's a girl to do? :/
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#20]
13 Apr 2007
To: Vicky (ANDERI) [#19] 13 Apr 2007
Building a set up fee into your price is a good idea. You still get your money, and the customer won't feel they're being loaded-up with ala carte charges.
When people balk at a deposit, (when a job requires some fairly expensive materials etc.), that's a red flag that you'll have a tough time getting paid at all.
I wouldn't work too hard at catering to those types.
It's true, that not many people can afford to turn work away, which is exactly the time to stick to your guns!
Years ago, I fell into the trap of thinking when times got tough, I'd get more customers by being less expensive than others.
Guess what? That not only led to poor-paying work, but didn't gain the respect of the customer.
The goal is to make yourself indispensable. You're in demand, you're a professional and just like the bus systems, another customer will be by in 20 minutes.
That's the attitude you want to project.
That's what a girl should do. :-)
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