Full Version: Set up charges
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#21]
13 Apr 2007
To: Vicky (ANDERI) [#19] 13 Apr 2007
We occasionally get a bad response for a deposit but we stick to our guns. It is their job, and it is a guarantee that you get some costs back. Also the people who do not leave a deposit are the ones that will want you to re-do the job because they just had another idea.
It is sort of like refusing checks except from businesses that we know. The very few people that do not have cash or a credit card, and will only pay by check, matches the number of bad checks that we used to get. (Read that as the same people.)
People often forget to pick up items when they did not put half down. They do not want it anymore. Sometimes people do not pick up items that were fully paid for.
From: Mike (TOOCON) [#22]
14 Apr 2007
To: ALL
This is a most interesting thread and as a newbie I am fortunate indeed that you have bared your souls in dealing with this delima. With your insight and hindsight I hope to avoid some of the wallet wrenching heartaches that you have endured at sometime or other.
But that leads me to a general question to the group.
Given that there is no magical formula for pricing, has anyone at least come up with a generic tick off list that can be enclosed with or included as a customer's purchase order form ?
Would you share it, and invite others to suggest POSITIVE improvements ? It may help us individually and as a group.
Hopefully anything out of the ordinary can then be flagged and accounted for in calculating fair compensation for services rendered.
It might sound like a lame question, but again I'm just a newbie. B-)
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#23]
14 Apr 2007
To: Mike (TOOCON) [#22] 14 Apr 2007
You need to make a good markup on the materials. If that is 3X or 10X depends on the product. (I have one that is 100X.) Usually the higher priced items have a lower markup, but it should still net you more than the lower priced ones at the higher markup. (Too easy to get trapped with this one.)
On plaques and some awards that usually have a lot of wording, we give 50, 75, or 100 letters in the price. $.22 per letter after that. (Tremendous resistance to $.25, but no resistance at $.22)
On items that get a few lines of engraving usually 1 line is free, each additional line is $4. It used to be $3 and there was no resistance to the change, go figure.
A few items like a 4" heart come with three lines. (They have been added into the price already at the $3 per line.)
Some items that often get sold without engraving, there is no free engraving. Card cases, brass keychains, compacts, and pens are among these items.
If you think I have this all together, you are so wrong. There is still a lot of gut wrenching indecision involved.
From: Dee (DEENA-ONLY) [#24]
14 Apr 2007
To: Mike (TOOCON) [#22] 14 Apr 2007
Mike,
Are you looking for info on how we price or are you looking for the form we use when customer's bring items in?
Dee
From: gt350ed [#25]
14 Apr 2007
To: Vicky (ANDERI) [#19] 15 Apr 2007
I have absolutely no problem doing this based, primarily, on the fact that what we (and you) do is CUSTOM work.
Of all those that come thru our doors, I would say that less than 5% of our transactions are such that we wait to get paid upon delivery.
From your description of large versus small companies, it's my feeling that it's their lack of real world sophistication that cause the smaller fish to balk.
I assure you that if you have a firm policy, posted or otherwise, and stick to your guns, they'll come around. Particularly if your work, products and service are the very best among your competition.
From: Mike (TOOCON) [#26]
14 Apr 2007
To: Dee (DEENA-ONLY) [#24] 15 Apr 2007
Being a newbie, - Yes and Yes. B-)
Actually the question was related to the customer form to be filled in when either the client buys in house and has it serviced (engrave or sublimated) or if the item(s) was purchased elsewhere.
Also would two different forms be appropriate., one for in house purchases and one for customer supplied items ?
If anyone has a sample blank form I would appreciate a copy. We plan to focus on laser engraving and OEM Laser Transfers.
If I get a good response I'll make up a composite model and post if for anyone who may need one to use or as a guide.
Scan it in JPG, PDF, TIF, Doc, XML or TXT formats, my computer will chew on anything. :O)
Thanks for replying Dee.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#27]
15 Apr 2007
To: Mike (TOOCON) [#26] 15 Apr 2007
I use a very generic form for items I stock, more for the training of new people to force them to get all of the information. Often we use sticky pads.
As for customer's own forms, I have posted one in Corel format a long time ago. I have a slightly updated one that I will post during the week that is on my office computer. I also believe that Dave Takes posted a full page customer's own form, mine is a half page.
From: ACJ (LADYCUTTER) [#28]
15 Apr 2007
To: ALL
It may be just a matter of semantics, but I have trouble with understanding the difference between setup charges and design charges. I thought setup was getting the total design to fit properly on whatever you are engraving; and design was touching up or creating logos and deciding of placement of text, etc. However, it seems that most setup requires some, if not a lot, of decisions re placement, font size, etc. So does one charge cover all? Or should there still be 2 charges?
Also, how do you handle the people that say, “how much would it cost to engrave ….” This usually happens to me when I am telling some one about what I do and I almost always quote way too low. Recently I was talking to someone and he asked how much to engrave a 8 x 10 photo on glass. I probably should have said $200. Instead I said “$80-100 but don’t hold me to that because I would need to see the photo.” I was very unhappy with this response!
Do any of you waiver like this??
From: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#29]
15 Apr 2007
To: ACJ (LADYCUTTER) [#28] 15 Apr 2007
My standard reply to a question like that is "I'll have to see the image before I can even give you a ballpark estimate. That is too important of a (fill in the blank) for me to give you a wild guess".
If they press me for an answer I'll sometimes revert to a response I had when I was a financial advisor... "let's say you called your doctor up and told him you didn't feel well and wanted to know what he would prescribe to make you feel better", "he would ask you to come in to his office for a visit so he could gather enough information to make a proper diagnosis, wouldn't he/she?". "I know this is slightly different, but I still need all of the information to give you a proper estimate".
Works almost all of the time - the only time it doesn't work is when someone is just fishing for something to talk about and have no intention of actually having you do any work. So either way you win.
Gary
From: ACJ (LADYCUTTER) [#30]
15 Apr 2007
To: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#29] 15 Apr 2007
From: logojohn [#31]
16 Apr 2007
To: ACJ (LADYCUTTER) [#28] 16 Apr 2007
A setup charge to us has always meant physically setting up a jig to hold difficult items since they have to be tigtly clamped on the rotary and care is needed not to scratch or dent them.
Sometimes even if it is straight forward it takes time to raise the bridge, install clamps or vice, figure positioning and testing with a plex overlay on customer items.
It might rarely apply to laser items if special postioning or care was needed for placement.
The setup charge is applied once for each time the order is done but only once per like items.
Our digitizing or art charges are for the artwork prep or re-tracing logos.
It is a one time charge and is not charged to use it again later.
The basic layout prep is not charged separately as it is included in the per letter or logo run charge. On rare occasions if they are trying to match an exact layout or something complex we may add it as an art charge.
From: PenMan [#32]
16 Apr 2007
To: ALL
I've been reading this thread and so far there are not really any specifics so, I would like an example of how you price.
Let's take a simple wood plaque for example. How would you price it including laser engraving? Let's say the plaque costs you $4.00 wholesale (yeah, it's a small plaque). The customer wants it laser engraved with text only, no graphics. Simple job. What do you consider in pricing and what would your final price be? I'll even provide the text. "yada yada yada club recognizes its team captain Joe Bob for his outstanding yada yada yada 2007". I'm trying to find out how most people mark up the product, how much they charge to set up or design the text, and how much they charge to engrave it. I know that adding a logo or graphics can really change things but for a simple text only job, how would you price it?
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#33]
16 Apr 2007
To: PenMan [#32] 16 Apr 2007
Like all estimates, even that one is a tough one.
That being said, I used to try to figure out how much to charge by laser time, and it almost always came out below my rotary engraving charge.
What I do now is mark up the board at least 3X. Calculate $0.22 per letter, (trying not to let the customer see what I am doing), and almost always come up with a fair price that the customer and I can agree on.
If it is very few letters you may have to add about $10 just to cover the setup of the piece in the laser and the layout, at $2 per minute. (Basically a 100 letter minimum letter charge, works every time, and does not cost me money to do the job.)
From: Ed (EBERTRAND) [#34]
16 Apr 2007
To: PenMan [#32] 16 Apr 2007
$27.15
Plaque $4.00
Shipping .545
Landed Cost $4.545 x 70% Mark Up = Board Selling Price $15.15
+ $12.00 for laser.
Ed
From: basehorawards [#35]
16 Apr 2007
To: PenMan [#32] 16 Apr 2007
It was a 4 x 6 plaque with a 3 x 5 black florentine plate. Wholesale cost was right around $4. Typical engraving time for a plaque that size is 3 minutes. I do not separate the laser time from the price for the plaque.
3
x $4
$12
+ 6 for laser time
$18
After reading the other two responses it seems my price is on the low side.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#36]
16 Apr 2007
To: basehorawards [#35] 16 Apr 2007
From: basehorawards [#37]
16 Apr 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#36] 16 Apr 2007
A timely point. I have a customer looking for a brass or pewter tankard but his big concern is that the engraving not "fade" over time like the brass one he got when he graduated. He showed it to me. It is a TR tankard rotary engraved coated brass. The engraving had tarnished and on the bright brass was hard to read after 13 years. I told him that tarnishing is pretty normal. I had not considered that the non tarnish engraving from a laser could be considered a perceived value. Won't help me on the tankard (of course if I do not find a tankard he likes I won't have to worry about it anyway) but I will have to think about it in the future.
In regards to doing a plaque on the rotary I have, I'm sure, been leaving money on the table. Most people will choose to have the engraving done on the laser but the ones who choose the rotary are getting a good deal (for now) because I have not done enough of them to get a typical time
From: PenMan [#38]
16 Apr 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#33] 16 Apr 2007
So if I interpret your response correctly you would charge:
3 x $4.00 = $12.00 for materials and $22.00 for the engraving based on 22 cents per letter with a 100 letter minimum and no additional setup charge. Total = $34. Is this about right?
From: ACJ (LADYCUTTER) [#39]
16 Apr 2007
To: logojohn [#31] 17 Apr 2007
That helps alot. The business I purchased includes a 14-year old laser where the table moves instead of the heads. Therefore there is time spent making sure the engraving will be properly lined up. That explains why the former owner charged both a set-up charge and a design charge at times. But going through the old invoices and work orders I can't find a real standard way of charging. This makes it really difficult when former customers come in with new jobs.
I really appreciate the pricing discussion here. Thanks, everyone.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#40]
16 Apr 2007
To: ACJ (LADYCUTTER) [#39] 17 Apr 2007
What brand is the laser. Sounds like one of the early LSI (can't remember the name?) models.
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