Full Version: Set up charges
From: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#29]
15 Apr 2007
To: ACJ (LADYCUTTER) [#28] 15 Apr 2007
My standard reply to a question like that is "I'll have to see the image before I can even give you a ballpark estimate. That is too important of a (fill in the blank) for me to give you a wild guess".
If they press me for an answer I'll sometimes revert to a response I had when I was a financial advisor... "let's say you called your doctor up and told him you didn't feel well and wanted to know what he would prescribe to make you feel better", "he would ask you to come in to his office for a visit so he could gather enough information to make a proper diagnosis, wouldn't he/she?". "I know this is slightly different, but I still need all of the information to give you a proper estimate".
Works almost all of the time - the only time it doesn't work is when someone is just fishing for something to talk about and have no intention of actually having you do any work. So either way you win.
Gary
From: ACJ (LADYCUTTER) [#30]
15 Apr 2007
To: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#29] 15 Apr 2007
From: logojohn [#31]
16 Apr 2007
To: ACJ (LADYCUTTER) [#28] 16 Apr 2007
A setup charge to us has always meant physically setting up a jig to hold difficult items since they have to be tigtly clamped on the rotary and care is needed not to scratch or dent them.
Sometimes even if it is straight forward it takes time to raise the bridge, install clamps or vice, figure positioning and testing with a plex overlay on customer items.
It might rarely apply to laser items if special postioning or care was needed for placement.
The setup charge is applied once for each time the order is done but only once per like items.
Our digitizing or art charges are for the artwork prep or re-tracing logos.
It is a one time charge and is not charged to use it again later.
The basic layout prep is not charged separately as it is included in the per letter or logo run charge. On rare occasions if they are trying to match an exact layout or something complex we may add it as an art charge.
From: PenMan [#32]
16 Apr 2007
To: ALL
I've been reading this thread and so far there are not really any specifics so, I would like an example of how you price.
Let's take a simple wood plaque for example. How would you price it including laser engraving? Let's say the plaque costs you $4.00 wholesale (yeah, it's a small plaque). The customer wants it laser engraved with text only, no graphics. Simple job. What do you consider in pricing and what would your final price be? I'll even provide the text. "yada yada yada club recognizes its team captain Joe Bob for his outstanding yada yada yada 2007". I'm trying to find out how most people mark up the product, how much they charge to set up or design the text, and how much they charge to engrave it. I know that adding a logo or graphics can really change things but for a simple text only job, how would you price it?
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#33]
16 Apr 2007
To: PenMan [#32] 16 Apr 2007
Like all estimates, even that one is a tough one.
That being said, I used to try to figure out how much to charge by laser time, and it almost always came out below my rotary engraving charge.
What I do now is mark up the board at least 3X. Calculate $0.22 per letter, (trying not to let the customer see what I am doing), and almost always come up with a fair price that the customer and I can agree on.
If it is very few letters you may have to add about $10 just to cover the setup of the piece in the laser and the layout, at $2 per minute. (Basically a 100 letter minimum letter charge, works every time, and does not cost me money to do the job.)
From: Ed (EBERTRAND) [#34]
16 Apr 2007
To: PenMan [#32] 16 Apr 2007
$27.15
Plaque $4.00
Shipping .545
Landed Cost $4.545 x 70% Mark Up = Board Selling Price $15.15
+ $12.00 for laser.
Ed
From: basehorawards [#35]
16 Apr 2007
To: PenMan [#32] 16 Apr 2007
It was a 4 x 6 plaque with a 3 x 5 black florentine plate. Wholesale cost was right around $4. Typical engraving time for a plaque that size is 3 minutes. I do not separate the laser time from the price for the plaque.
3
x $4
$12
+ 6 for laser time
$18
After reading the other two responses it seems my price is on the low side.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#36]
16 Apr 2007
To: basehorawards [#35] 16 Apr 2007
From: basehorawards [#37]
16 Apr 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#36] 16 Apr 2007
A timely point. I have a customer looking for a brass or pewter tankard but his big concern is that the engraving not "fade" over time like the brass one he got when he graduated. He showed it to me. It is a TR tankard rotary engraved coated brass. The engraving had tarnished and on the bright brass was hard to read after 13 years. I told him that tarnishing is pretty normal. I had not considered that the non tarnish engraving from a laser could be considered a perceived value. Won't help me on the tankard (of course if I do not find a tankard he likes I won't have to worry about it anyway) but I will have to think about it in the future.
In regards to doing a plaque on the rotary I have, I'm sure, been leaving money on the table. Most people will choose to have the engraving done on the laser but the ones who choose the rotary are getting a good deal (for now) because I have not done enough of them to get a typical time
From: PenMan [#38]
16 Apr 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#33] 16 Apr 2007
So if I interpret your response correctly you would charge:
3 x $4.00 = $12.00 for materials and $22.00 for the engraving based on 22 cents per letter with a 100 letter minimum and no additional setup charge. Total = $34. Is this about right?
From: ACJ (LADYCUTTER) [#39]
16 Apr 2007
To: logojohn [#31] 17 Apr 2007
That helps alot. The business I purchased includes a 14-year old laser where the table moves instead of the heads. Therefore there is time spent making sure the engraving will be properly lined up. That explains why the former owner charged both a set-up charge and a design charge at times. But going through the old invoices and work orders I can't find a real standard way of charging. This makes it really difficult when former customers come in with new jobs.
I really appreciate the pricing discussion here. Thanks, everyone.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#40]
16 Apr 2007
To: ACJ (LADYCUTTER) [#39] 17 Apr 2007
What brand is the laser. Sounds like one of the early LSI (can't remember the name?) models.
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#41]
17 Apr 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#40] 17 Apr 2007
From: ACJ (LADYCUTTER) [#42]
17 Apr 2007
To: ALL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#43]
18 Apr 2007
To: ACJ (LADYCUTTER) [#42] 18 Apr 2007
If memory serves (I think it does) before they began using a PC to run the system, it was strictly designed to scan B&W artwork, (with an electric eye) on one side of the machine, while the laser beam duplicated the artwork on the other.
Very similar to the way the mechanical photolathes worked, except much faster.
Are you sure the machine's 14 years old? I think it may be much older than that.
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#44]
18 Apr 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#43] 18 Apr 2007
You are thinking of the original LMI. When Epilog and ULS "eliminated" the sales of that machine, LMI introduced a machine to attempt to compete but it was too little too late and they didn't do much with it.
Newing-Hall distributed it for a year or so and them M&R picked up distribution and sold it to their rubber stamp people. As ladycutter describes, it was a strange looking, roll top that was on the market for a total of about 5 years.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#45]
18 Apr 2007
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#44] 19 Apr 2007
Now that you mention it, I do remember that roll-top model.
I thought it looked kind of space-age. :-)