Full Version: Corel vs Illustrator
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#16]
12 Apr 2007
To: Sei (SEIMA) [#15] 13 Apr 2007
I'm sorry that it's given you problems, and I hope that Steve addresses your dissatisfaction.
Sei,
Thank you for you kind offer of support, and your thoughtful post.
Steve will help me. Of that I am sure.
I realize that NO vectorization program will work wonders or miracles, but since the graphic I was using was pretty decent to start with, I expected more.
You ARE correct about it's strongest point being the font recognition, which does work quite well, IF one is able to get a decent vectorization to begin with. THAT is my challenge.
I am sure that this "burp" is more *ME* than the program. At least I hope so.
Thanks again for your help.
From: Hermes (HERMESSANDOVAL) [#17]
12 Apr 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#1] 12 Apr 2007
Well Chuck I have always used corel since version 2, but my best experiences as an ad designer were using illustrator and mostly photoshop. I am fondest to adobe software but i have to admit, for an engraving business there's nothing better than corel.
For tracing purposes I have found no significant differences. Illustrator is a far more powerful tool for posters, billboards, plotting, printing press and forms. Corel draw, well, I generally adress it as being another illustrator wannabe like the late freehand and others.
The main thing here is being corel able to manage any size and type of page fitting to the output (plotter, laser, router) it stands above Illustrator for engraving puposes.
I have Illustrator CS2 and it does open Corel draw CDR files, up until version 11 though, but it seems to me as a seamless conversion, haven't tried with multiple pages and layers.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#18]
12 Apr 2007
To: Hermes (HERMESSANDOVAL) [#17] 13 Apr 2007
Hermes,
Thank you for your fine post. I think that I will probably end up using Photoshop and CorelX3.
Even though I took a couple of photopaint classes in Vegas in Ferbruary, it is obvious that Photoshop is hands down the best for part of my needs, and since "most" of my output is engraving, Corel, will serve the other part.
Thank you for your input.
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#19]
12 Apr 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#18] 12 Apr 2007
I don't know Illustrator, so key that into the equation. However, I've installed numerous systems ran with AI where the operator was considered very knowledgeable but when I would ask them to do something that would be very basic in Draw, they'd often say "I don't think AI can do that." I know that's not fair, but having experienced it scores of times over the last few years, it has kept me from investing the time to climb the learning curve.
We probably all got the same eMail offer for $199 on Imagegro Z w/$ back guarantee. I'm probably going to try it so I can use it on my standard 16 test graphics that I use to compare r->v programs. If I understand it right, this version has the same r->v engine as Pro, but doesn't come with the 20,000(?) TT fonts.
Honestly, in watching Steve and his predecessor work their canned scans at the shows, I've never been overly impressed with the actual vectorization. Especially since X3 has given us the all the preview/modify/options to reduce the # of nodes, I'm skeptical that I'll see anything significant.
As much as all of us have come to regard both Carl's & Dave's technical contributions to our forum(s), I'm going to play the devil's advocate. I have *never* found pre processing in a bitmap editor to save any time. Of course your initial scan might be somewhat better if you 'paint" it first, but I personally find the cleanup capabilities of Draw to be so much more efficient for the type output I require than time spent in paint. Lastly for this exercise, if a graphic is so bad that the bitmap program would help, then it is an excellent candidate for manual tracing.
On other forums, I've heard that AI's vectorization is not noticeably better than the last version of Streamline which I used as my main vectorization tool before PrecisionScan and CorelTRACE 10; since TRACE 10, comparisons were a "wash."
I do still find, however, that PrecisionScan (software used by the HP vectorizing scanners) to still be superior to *anything* available on very small graphics (e.g., the business card logos you mentioned). Several programs, including X3, compete nicely on larger, higher quality graphics.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#20]
12 Apr 2007
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#19] 13 Apr 2007
Honestly, in watching Steve and his predecessor work their canned scans at the shows, I've never been overly impressed with the actual vectorization. Especially since X3 has given us the all the preview/modify/options to reduce the # of nodes, I'm skeptical that I'll see anything significant.
Roy,
As always, thank you for your help. I am glad you weighed in on this. Your understanding of the $199.00 version of ImagaroZ is correct.
As for the "canned" scans, I must admit I was skeptical of that as well, especially at the $699.00 price. I always felt they should have a scanner in their booth and take graphics from the attendees to prove their point. The last three shows have all been the same regarding ImagaroZ and the content used.
With THAT said, Steve has helped me with a couple of graphics and I "was" duly impressed. However as mentioned before I have lost some of my initial entusiasm for the program. If Steve is able to help me with this one particular graphic and PROVE to me that it works...great. Otherwise I will want a refund.
As for the Precision Scan, it works as advertised, but I think I need a little more education. The image I have tried to recreate did not seem to work very well. ( maybe I will email it to you).
Finally as for AI vs Corel. I will stay with Corel. However I think Photoshop CS3 is in my near future.
Thank you Roy, for your help and continued support of the industry. You NEVER cease to amaze me as to your willingness to help everyone, whether they are a customer or not.
From: sprinter [#21]
12 Apr 2007
To: ALL
I still find CASmate Pro (which is Flexisign now) to be the best I have found followed by AI cs2, HP Precision Scan, and Corel X3. I was not impressed with ImagaroZ and returned it.
Grant you CASmate and Flexisign are $3500 + sign making software, I use it for all my vectorization and complex layouts and import it into Corel for the laser output.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#22]
12 Apr 2007
To: ALL
When I talked with the artist about making the changes to permit engraving the answer I got was "I can't do that in Illustrator."
Long story short--I made all the changes in CD X3 and for a change charged a fair price for doing it. (usually I under charge for my art work)
Anyway CD was flawless on this job.
BTW, I used stencil board for the first time and it was great to work with.
From: Carl (CSEWELL) [#23]
12 Apr 2007
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#19] 13 Apr 2007
And you've probably been editing nodes far longer than me! ;^)
Pre-processing a file will not change an impossible to convert image to a perfect conversion. However, for me, it dramatically reduces clean-up time. Maybe that's only because I've been using graphic editors far longer than node editors? No, that's probably not true since I've been using CAD programs for +25 years.
Everybody has their tools of choice and people don't work the same. Node editing, for me, in X3, is painfully slow, but that's due to my slow computer. I've started going back to v12 of CorelDraw to perform node editing because I can accomplish it much faster. And, being fairly new to X3, I have not learned all the finer points.
Yes, there are far more settings in X3's trace, compared to v12, that can do the same or similar things that pre-processing a file can do. So far, the pre-processing, for me, yields far better results in a lot less time. And that may be solely due to the lack of processing power of my computer! As I get more familiar with X3, and maybe buy a faster computer, I may change that opinion. Your opinions will definitely influence that decision.
I have manually traced my fair share of images! And I've also used both automated and manual methods to achieve the results that I expect.
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#24]
13 Apr 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#22] 13 Apr 2007
We want to see pictures!
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#25]
13 Apr 2007
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#24] 14 Apr 2007
Roy:
I'll see if the client will send me copies. The drawings and models were for gates for the St. Louis Zoo. The gates are going to be constructed of a particular kind of steel which rusts quickly and evenly and the rust provides a durable finish. Each drawing repesented a layer of steel depicting an element of the overall design.
This steel will be welded in layers with one image on top of the other creating a jungle scene. One gate is a cheetah scene the other a rhino.
The challenging part of the job was making the spots of the cheetahs. I decided to raster them (all the way through the board) rather than vector them. So many tiny spots would have been a nightmare to vector.
After completing the cutting I took the material to the model builder for gluing and painting and framing. The frame represents a 4" steel box that surrounds the entire gate and provides the support for the hinges.
I collaborated with the model builder because the job was originally his but his lasers will only vector and he couldn't make the drawings work.
EDITED: 13 Apr 2007 by DGL
From: Larry B (PALMETTO) [#26]
14 Apr 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#18] 14 Apr 2007
Chuck:
I agree with you on Photoshop. I use both Corel Photopaint and Photoshop. I think Photoshop wins hands down when it comes to photo editing and manipulating graphics. PP has it's good points but PS has more.
Corel X3 is good, a lot better than some prior editions. The Powertrace thing is OK, but as someone else said, the one that comes with Flexisign and Enroute (same company) is really good, but those are super expensive softwares. I have the one in my Enroute CNC toolpath program.
I agree with enhancing your bitmaps before attempting to trace them. Just get in there and work on the things that don't look right. I usually change the contrast and such. Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck!
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#27]
14 Apr 2007
To: Larry B (PALMETTO) [#26] 14 Apr 2007
Thanks Larry,
This thread has been enlightening to say the least.....it is great that so many folks shared their opinions and ideas..... I learned a lot......
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#28]
14 Apr 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#25] 14 Apr 2007
Sounds like a terrific project. I hope you'll be able show the finished model. When are the "real" gates scheduled to be completed?
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#29]
14 Apr 2007
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#28] 15 Apr 2007
I have sent a request for a picture to the artist. The installation should be completed in June.
The model was made at the request of the donor of the steel for the gates.
I will follow up on this even if I have to take pictures of the real thing once installed.
From: William Desrochers (DRAKESIS) [#30]
15 Apr 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#1] 15 Apr 2007
Illustrator CS can open CDR 10 and under files, as CMYK or RGB.
I use both Illustrator CS and Coreldraw 12, and honestly there's not a lot of difference between both. There both just as good for vectoring.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#31]
15 Apr 2007
To: William Desrochers (DRAKESIS) [#30] 15 Apr 2007
Thank you William,
I appreciate your input. The conclusion I have come to is to Keep on using X3 and upgrade Photoshop.
I will try some of the tricks mentioned here regarding pre processing as well.....
Thanks again for your help.
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