Full Version: First mechanical engraving job
From: Mike (SPACE_ENGRAVERS) [#1]
16 Apr 2007
To: ALL
Here is the first job we've done with our EGX-30. Pretty simple I know, but we are VERY new to mechanical engraving.
Mike
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#2]
16 Apr 2007
To: Mike (SPACE_ENGRAVERS) [#1] 16 Apr 2007
That's a good start!
Do you have any multi-line fonts on the machine?
Single-line gothic (typeface shown) is a staple, but for desk nameplates, an Optima, Triple-line Roman or Helvetica are in greater demand.
Also, true type fonts can be hatch-filled, increasing your typestyle choices, but also increasing your running times.
Very nice! Congratulations.
From: Mike (SPACE_ENGRAVERS) [#3]
16 Apr 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#2] 17 Apr 2007
David,
Thanks. I have a couple of 3L fonts but I'm still trying to figure out how to pick the right cutter for them. The few I've tried didn't look too good because the cutter I chose was too big, so some areas were weeded completely out and others just left a sliver of material...didn't look good at all. I'll just have to find time to play around with it.
The bigest learning curve for me is alignment...with the laser, you just put in the top left...with this, I'm not sure...For example, if I'm doing an odd shape object like one of Franks tags, how do I place it and make sure my engraving is going to be right in the center? I know I can change the origin point, but that doen't seem very exact...
Mike
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4]
17 Apr 2007
To: Mike (SPACE_ENGRAVERS) [#3] 17 Apr 2007
Mike,
What cutter widths do you have? For 3-line fonts, used on a nameplate as you've shown, a .030 and .040 will come in handy.
As to alignment, I've never worked with a Roland machine, so I don't know its fine points.
EDITED: 17 Apr 2007 by DGL
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#5]
17 Apr 2007
To: Mike (SPACE_ENGRAVERS) [#3] 17 Apr 2007
There is a basic formula for non special fonts.
Take the line height and divide it by 8.
Divide that by the number of lines in the font.
If you want it to appear filled multiply that by 1.2 for 20% overlap.
If you want the lines to show, divide it by 3.
That is the proper tool size.
On Old English it bust be even thinner than that to look right.
I do not know what the software contains but Gravostyle98 contains a feature WYSISWYRE that will take the tool information and do a approximate drawing to the screen. (Not perfect, but gives you a good idea.)
From: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#6]
18 Apr 2007
To: Mike (SPACE_ENGRAVERS) [#3] 18 Apr 2007
On my old NH-300 converted to computer control I make a nest for each chewbarka tag.
The nest is a 4" x 4" piece of engraving plastic. In the center of the nest I cut out the shape of the tag using an outline of the shape, sent to the engraver.
Now whenever I need to engrave a tag I creat a 4" x 4" square in corel draw and center the text in that box. I place the cutter at the top left hand corner of the nest, place the tag in the cutout, and engrave. The text is centered on the tag.
I also have an outline of each tag that I will place in the 4" x 4" square in corel draw. That allows me to place text any where on the tag. I delete the outline before I send it to the engraver.
Hope this was clear enough to help.
EDITED: 18 Apr 2007 by ELECTECH1
From: Mike (SPACE_ENGRAVERS) [#7]
18 Apr 2007
To: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#6] 18 Apr 2007
That's how I do it too for the laser but, unless I'm missing something, I have to set up the "home" position for the mechanical each time and if I don't set it to the exact same spot as the template was made from, then it won't do any good. So knowing how to set the "home" position to the same spot everytime is where I'm stuck...
Mike
From: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#8]
18 Apr 2007
To: Mike (SPACE_ENGRAVERS) [#7] 18 Apr 2007
I cant help there, my engraver does not have or use a home position.
I can start it anywhere. In this case I start it in the top corner of the nest.
I just pick a random spot on the table, place the nest, and then manually move the engraver to the corner. Then I hit start.
Steve
From: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#9]
18 Apr 2007
To: Mike (SPACE_ENGRAVERS) [#7] 18 Apr 2007
Do you get any type of read out where the engraver head is located. or how much it has moved?
X=1.234 Y=2.345
From: basehorawards [#10]
18 Apr 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#5] 18 Apr 2007
Divide that by the number of lines in the font.
If you want it to appear filled multiply that by 1.2 for 20% overlap.
If you want the lines to show, divide it by 3.
That is the proper tool size.
So if I am not completely thick in the head, you are saying:
If I am engraving 1/4" letters with a 3 line font and I want the lines to show:
.25 / 8 = .03125
.03125 / 3 = .010
If I am engraving 1/4" letters with a 3 line font and I want it to appear filed:
.25 / 8 = .03125
.03125 * 1.2 = .0375 (would you use .030 or .040?)
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#11]
18 Apr 2007
To: basehorawards [#10] 18 Apr 2007
Divide that by the number of lines in the font.
If you want it to appear filled multiply that by 1.2 for 20% overlap.
If you want the lines to show, divide it by 3.
That is the proper tool size.
1/4" line height =.25 3 Line Roman
.25/8=.03125 (/8)
.03125/3=.0104 (/ number of lines in font)
To show well .0104/3=.0034 (About a .005 bit) (Usually go down to a standard size.)
To be filled .0104*1.2=.0125 (About a .015 bit)(Usually go up to a standard size.)
From: Dee (DEENA-ONLY) [#12]
18 Apr 2007
To: basehorawards [#10] 18 Apr 2007
Jim,
I am not trying to sound like a wise gal here but do you know what condensation is and how it relates to bit size? Are you familiar with the 45% rule?
Dee?
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#13]
18 Apr 2007
To: Dee (DEENA-ONLY) [#12] 18 Apr 2007
Since a letter only condenses width wise, it gets tough. I usually adjust the bit size by half the distance of the condensation.
E.G. If it condenses to 70%, 1/2 the distance to 100% is 85%. So I multiply the result by .85.
Meant to post to Jim, not Dee.
EDITED: 18 Apr 2007 by HARVEY-ONLY
From: logojohn [#14]
18 Apr 2007
To: basehorawards [#10] 18 Apr 2007
view and enter the cutter size at the bottom left.
It will then show you what the letters look like with that width of cutter.
Or were you just trying to help those without that feature.
I thought I heard some other brands of rotarys could do that to.
Its also handy to use if you need to make a paper proof for a customer since it shows what the actual letter width will be. It prints that way so you could even use it for sending to the laser or sublimation if you wanted to.
As a general rule I start with a cutter size the same as the height in inches and ignore the decimals. From there I adjust in normal view to allow for letters condensing or fonts with different numbers of strokes.
.15 inches .015 cutter
.3 inch letters .030 cutter
.6 inch letters .060 cutter
1.25 inch letters .125 cutter
Like I said, that is a starting point and as anything, there are exceptions.
From: basehorawards [#15]
18 Apr 2007
To: Dee (DEENA-ONLY) [#12] 19 Apr 2007
Dee,
Nope I am just learning. I got my Xenetech secondhand and so I did not get the benefit of the salesman training. I am still learning and the curve is steep and sometimes I am thick in the head. I use the help menu a lot but they can't cover everything there.
What is the 45% rule?
From: basehorawards [#16]
18 Apr 2007
To: logojohn [#14] 18 Apr 2007
Now I have learned something else. I did know that the Xenetech put a suggested cutter size down there but I did not know that I could change it. I suppose I should have known that but I never actually thought it through.
Most of what I have done on my rotary has been stainless with 1/4" and larger letters with a .030 bit and diamond drag. As the number of years in business grow larger I am beginning to get more interesting jobs and as such am having the need and opportunity to learn more.
Boy I sure have taken this thread off topic.
From: geebeau [#17]
18 Apr 2007
To: Mike (SPACE_ENGRAVERS) [#1] 19 Apr 2007
Good show!!
Everyone has to start at the beginning.
Best of luck!
Steve
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#18]
19 Apr 2007
To: basehorawards [#15] 19 Apr 2007
The 45% rule is that to look right, the engraving should be 45% of the height of the piece.
If you want three lines with the top one 1.5 X the height of the others you can use a formula. Difficult to explain so I will try to give an example.
The piece will be 2.5" tall in the example.
2.5" X .45 = 1.125" total engraving height
First line 1.5 X the next two. 1.5 + 1 + 1 =3.5
1.125 / 3.5 = .321
The bottom two lines (1 X) should be .321" tall
The top line at 1.5 X the others should be .321 X 1.5 = .482
As far as the left and right margins .08 X Width usually works, especially on smaller pieces. On larger pieces .06 works well. New Hermes Gravograph 98 defaults to .10, way too large except for tiny pieces. Dahlgren used .08.