Full Version: Pricing slate.
From: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#1]
18 Apr 2007
To: ALL
Recently did a sample for a slate company here that wants me to engrave their information on samples of slate for them to hand out at trade shows. The slate piece is 4.5x4.5 and I was able to get a good engraving at speed 45 power 100. I only had two samples to work with, so I didn't do a lot of experimenting with the numbers. These seemed to work, so this is what I used.
I have a 45 watt Epilog Helix and it took apprx. 1min. 20 sec. to engrave one at the above settings
I meet with him on Saturday and was wondering what number I need to quote him.
It seems I have heard on here that $60.00 an hour is a going rate give or take. Going with that, 60 an hour divided by 1 min. 20 seconds gives an average of .75 a tile. Its late, so I would not be at all surprised if my math is off.
I also, basically had to recreate their logo in order to engrave it, so I was going to charge a setup fee, but wasn't for certain how much to charge for that. I don't want to scare him off.
Thanks for any and all advice.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#2]
18 Apr 2007
To: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#1] 19 Apr 2007
How many pieces would you be engraving?
From what I've read here, over the years, per-hour laser charges range anywhere from $60-$150 and higher.
Depends on the type of work.
If you were working very effciently, with enough volume, the lower rate could work.
From: Goodvol (JIMGOOD) [#3]
18 Apr 2007
To: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#1] 19 Apr 2007
Franklin,
At $60 per hour you would be charging $1 per minute. So, for 1 minute 20 seconds, it is 1.33 minutes for a cost of $1.33. Seventy five cents would back out a time of 45 seconds. As a reference, $100 per hour would make it $1.67 per minute so 1.33 minutes would give you a price of $2.22.
I hope this helps!
Jim
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#4]
19 Apr 2007
To: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#1] 19 Apr 2007
I have changed my laser time pricing. I was leaving too much on the table. The results of a laser are usually far superior to my rotary engraving and were priced far less.
When using just laser and load/unload time, (yes, that is part of the laser time), I used to be $60 wholesale and $90 retail. (With this figure you have to charge shop rate for job layout time.) I then went to about $90 wholesale and $120 retail. I have since started to price it as a rotary job, easier to figure, no resistance and I do not leave a ton of money on the counter.
The industry used to charge by the letter. That covered each letter in setup of the type and the engraving time. We went to computerized engravers and pretty much stuck with it. Laser works there also, people are used to it.
Big wholesale jobs are a different story.
From: logojohn [#5]
19 Apr 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#4] 19 Apr 2007
This company is so old at one time everything was done on manual pantographs. We did charge by the letter back in 1953, not me but the company. . . We still do.
When computer engravers first arrived, our owner went to a trade show seminar and vowed never to go again. The consensus was that now people were able to lower prices since engraving would be faster. He felt that made about as much sense as a rubber crutch. His contrary opinion was that he was raising his because now he could provide faster service, better looking layouts, more capability engraving logos and consistency by saving layouts etc. The customer doesn't care what you use that is behind the door, just what you can do for them.
When we started doing signs and acrylic awards on the rotary, it was more time consuming with cutter changes, slower run speeds and scratching problems than basic drag engraving, thus a higher price was set. About a third more per letter but still not enough to cover the difference but sounded marketable. Especially on logos for $8 that might take 15 minutes each to engrave and hard to get good results.
Then the laser came around making some plastic and all acrylic 10 times faster and easier not to mention better quality. Another chance to lower prices . . . don't bet your rubber crutch on it. So even though the laser is much quicker we charge more for acrylics, crystal and wood than for drag engraving. Even with faster laser time when you consider the higher initial cost, more frequent need of replacement parts, less useful life, etc. of a laser your costs are higher than a quality rotary engraver. There are still many manual pantographs around that are 40 years old. I doubt a laser will work that long so even though they were slow and time consuming, not a bad deal.
We have sales people whose job it is to count letters so the extra work is not an excuse to leave money on the table to make the owners job easier.
The fast laser time does give us some options and we do quote lower rates on very large runs or laser to meet unrealistic delivery times. If someone comes in with a budget or a competing bid we rarely can't make them happy and easily make the shop minimum*.
ex1:
We quoted a large order for trophies, yes trophies, using our normal methods since it saves time. Didn't figure we would get it but tried anyway. We used our metal columns, not plastic with gold flaking off like their cheapest they could find "deal" columns, metal engraving plates, not mylar printed, and quality bases and figures. We got the bid and the customer was thrilled that the price was lower and they "didn't have to put them together themselves"!
ex2: Every year or two someone contacts one of the major accounts with a lowball offer. Usually low quality sublimated plaques on cheap boards. We offer them choices at different price levels and quality. Most of the time after seeing the difference they stay with what they were getting all along, even passing up some of our other "mid range" options of very good quality.
There are some that you can never please and are wasting your time.
ex:1 A company would demand 1-2 days service on a large number of plaques. Every year they would come in wanting a lower price they found somewhere else. We went way to low one year and guess what. We did them that year but the next year they went with someone else that was stupid enough to go even lower. Adios amigo.
I am pretty stupid and don't understand a lot. But it seems many people just starting with lasers are concerned about making exactly the same amount per hour on every order. The shop rate people target should be viewed as a minimum target range, not a maximum*. You won't go to hell if you make 10% under your shop rate on a customer with potential and 8 times your shop rate on someone who needed it this weekend or they would be on a stage somewhere with nothing to give the poor lady who worked for a boss for 50 years that didn't realize she was leaving that weekend till 2 days before. Maybe it is looks like a ripoff till you add in the last 5 coreldraw upgrades, hours spent figuring out howdhedodat or the years it took to get to the point you could turn the dreaded gif from a website into something to convince that 50 year employee that she was the only thing on the absentminded boss' mind for the last month or so at least. It may take you a half hour to do that special award but how long (and how much money invested in equipment) did it take you to be able to do it in a half hour, not to mention you stocked that $100 piece for 3 months just in case some boss had an urgent need? Is it fair to charge MORE than the MINIMUM half hour shop rate of $30 or partially cover the rest of your time and monetary investment to make that boss with other things on his mind make that deserving lady feel like a million bucks?
There are numerous local and internet options customers have for cheaper prices, selling at list price or lower without the per letter we charge. Our niche turned out to be QUICK QUALITY not CHEAP. We got several requests just this week for items people needed quick with pictures from other less expensive websites. One was a company executive anyone would recognize on a plane to China Friday that called Wednesday wanting an award in Chinese right away . . . Ok how about Thursday!
Just for the sake of making the longest post in EE history even longer, I offer the following:
Many people have offered suggestions about what to charge on things people request. "No I will not go lower, I won't make any money and won't budge on my price period.....is the suggestion"
I saw somewhere where a large marketing company …[Message Truncated]
EDITED: 19 Apr 2007 by LOGOJOHN
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#6]
19 Apr 2007
To: logojohn [#5] 19 Apr 2007
I don't think you broke the EE record for post length. :-)
That distinction may go to Rodney, for his "laser ideas" post, but yours was a great post with excellent points.
Thank you,
From: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#7]
19 Apr 2007
To: Goodvol (JIMGOOD) [#3] 21 Apr 2007
I have since redid my math. Like I said it was late. My brain only functions properly when the hamster is awake. I kept looking at it and knew something didn't compute right with my figures.
As for the quantity I am uncertain. I figure that since he was wanting these to pass out at trade shows that I would quote him for 500. This would give him an idea of what he would be looking at in the way of price.
From: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#8]
19 Apr 2007
To: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#7] 19 Apr 2007
Careful with guessing the quantity you are quoting. If you guess you should quote on 500 and he only wants 50 he will want the same price. Get an estimate of quantity from him then make sure your quote allows for more and less than that quantity.
I quoted a job recently that the customer asked about pricing for 100 items, turns out they could only "afford" to buy 10 but they wanted to see the 100 pricing. I'm glad I did a written quote for 1-10 as well as 100+.
Gary
From: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#9]
19 Apr 2007
To: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#8] 19 Apr 2007