Full Version: Hot Stamping Learning Curve
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1]
14 Jun 2004
To: Dee (DEENA-ONLY) 14 Jun 2004
Dee,
In another thread, you asked about the learning curve for hot stamping. I've invited a person with much more knowledge than myself to the forum. Hopefully, he'll find time to add to the discussion.
In the meantime, here's my response:
With all the faux leather out there, it's sometimes difficult to determine the composition of an item.
It's a matter of learning which foil works for a given material. Some foils are made to work with leather and paper, others are meant for vinyl and some seem to work on both.
The learning curve isn't very steep. I would suggest starting with paper to get a feel for heat, pressure and dwell time.
Too much heat, and the image will blur. Not enough, and you won't get a complete image.
Too much pressure, (on plush items) and you may get unwanted parts of the type body or type holder printing to the item. Not enough pressure would lead to a weak or incomplete image.
Too much dwell time on a vinyl product can cause it to melt.
Once you get a feel for printing to paper, use an inexpensive vinyl binder to get a feel for that material. After that, maybe use an old wallet to get a feel for leather etc., etc.
Once you get a feel for what works (and what doesn't) working on a customer-supplied item becomes much less scary.
You probably went through similar experiences with engraving.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#2]
14 Jun 2004
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1] 14 Jun 2004
Having done very little hot stamping, I can only add a tiny bit.
Most gold foils are really brass foils, which look great. For leather products and anything else that contains acids, you need real gold foil. The brass foils will turn green within a week.
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#3]
19 Mar 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1] 19 Mar 2005
So what exactly is hot stamping?
Are you melting or burning/branding the item?
Is the heat being used to "glue" something to the item?
Can someone post some pictures?
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4]
19 Mar 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#3] 19 Mar 2005
Ken,
Hot stamping is where a "foil" is placed under a heated die or handset type (temp. changes depending on substrate and/or foil) then transferred to the substrate.
Foil comes in a rainbow of colors, though gold seems to be the favorite for marking wallets, Bibles etc.
The embossing of an item, without the use of foil, (no color) is called "Blind Embossing"
Most smaller machines don't generate enough heat to "Brand" leather, though, a slight change of color is seen when blind embossing a light-colored leather.
Learning curve is mostly discovering which foil to use (some are specifically made for paper/leather; others are designated for vinyl) and understanding the proper heat and dwell times.
If you've done sublimation, you'll find many parallels.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: John (ICTJOHN) [#5]
19 Mar 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#3] 19 Mar 2005
Ken,
David explained the process rather well, the easiest way to think of hot stamping, is the ribbons given at 4-H shows, fairs, track & swim meets. The shiney gold printing was hot stamped onto the ribbon. The same process can be done to leather, paper, plastic, wood, vinyl as well as ribbon.
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#6]
19 Mar 2005
To: John (ICTJOHN) [#5] 19 Mar 2005
David & John,
Thank you, now I know what people are talking about.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#7]
19 Mar 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4] 19 Mar 2005
David,
Would you consider hot stamping to be a profitable added value service to customers? Do you think it is a good diversification? Have you heard of the Howard JP 80?
Chuck
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#8]
19 Mar 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#7] 19 Mar 2005
Chuck,
I haven't heard of the Howard JP 80, but then again, Howard hasn't heard of me either :-)
Actually, there's very little difference between hot stamping machines, other than, some have larger printing fields, can reach higher temps and offer the added convenience and consistency of pneumatic (air actuated) operation, which lessens the fatigue of the operator.
Hand operation of hot stamp machines requires an acquired "touch." Dwell time, heat and pressure can vary from item to item.
I feel it's good to know the physical "feel" of those variables, in order to understand the settings of the pneumatic equipment.
It's similar to knowing how to operate a manual pantograph. Being able to physically "feel" the drag of a cutter (diamond-drag or rotary), through various substrates, makes setting feed rates, dwell time and depth of cut on computerized equipment much easier.
That way, you're working from actual feedback of the manually operated equipment, to logically make the proper settings.
Profitability? That depends on the jobs you do. Very few people want to deal with aftermarket marking of customer supplied goods. If you gain enough experience to conquer that "Fear Factor" there's good money to be made on 1z-2z's.
Other than that, your best bet is to get pneumatic equipment and go for higher volume, less risky buisness.
There's a company in Sun Valley, CA, who in the past, has shown interest in forum participation. AAMSTAMP, is the company who basically filled the void left by Kingsley (old-line supplier of hot stamping equipment and supplies) when they closed their doors a few years back.
I asked about a field trip, for forum members, and they seemed open to the idea.
I'll give them a call and see if they have anything to add to this thread.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#9]
21 Mar 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#7] 21 Mar 2005
Others do it well but my Kingsley machine has been sitting in my garage for about 7 years unused with about 8 fonts. I do not wish to sell it, yet.
It is a market that I have not gone into due to the setup time and the non-expertise I have. I need a sample piece to play with to get the right settings, and do not usually have that luxury. I have done napkins and ribbons and an occasional other item. I do not have any true gold foil so I would not even try leather. (Brass foil turns green very fast due to the tannic acid in leather.)
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10]
21 Mar 2005
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#9] 21 Mar 2005
Harvey,
In absence of true gold foil, there are crossover foils that come very close in appearance, and adhere to leather very well.
The small Kingsley machine you own can be used to place single color logos on plastic namebadges. Multiple colors are possible, but the registration is more hassle than it's worth, for a short run.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA