John,

What I am POSITIVE of is that I do not want to hear from Mr Spence.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would be interested in what he has to say. But then, what do I know, I could never figure out why all of those people would take their kids to Neverland Ranch.

If he did happen to take advantage of David's generous invitation it would be just horrible if some of us uncaring posters pointed out his little faults and made him uncomfortable. I would not have to be concerned with giving him a break for now if he had not been invited to participate in the forum to begin with.

You seem to feel more strongly when the the problem is in your community.

Pete,

It's highly unlikely Stephen will visit the forum. That would have held true, even before the allegations, that you seem to regard as fact.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA

David,
It is clear that some of us consider the fact that he is accused enough reason not to be even remotely associated with him until the results are in. On the other hand, it is also clear that some, like you, feel strongly that he is innocent until proven guilty and he is no threat to society unless he is convicted.

It is unlikely that either camp is going to radically change their view. In that light, I suggest that we all drop this issue since discussing it is not likely to strengthen anyone's postion or change anyone's mind. About the only result we can expect from this point on is the generation of ill feelings over a subject that we have no control over. I could easily continue to respond to most of these posts, but my position is clear and I would accomplish very little except for personal satisfaction in stating my case.

Why don't we just move on. John was correct when he indicated it is not a POSITIVE topic for the forum.

Pete,

Could it be that we've finally found a point on which to concur?

I think so, and I agree with your assessment that we've all made our points, and only time and the slow-moving wheels of justice will have the final say.

And Pete, I mean this - Thank you.

Your conciliatory message, was the right post, at the right time.

We have a wealth of interesting topics to discuss. Let's.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA

You have to consider the evidence in either case....In your case it was simply your word against some kid's......In Mr Spence's case, they took a camera out of the bathroom as well as tapes that were made with the recording equipment, and he was found to have posession of child pornography. Now I look at both cases differently because of the evidence that had been gathered. Everyone has to make their own moral choice on how to deal with someone that has been charged but not yet through a trial, but I would choose based on what I thought was reasonable to believe based on the evidence that they have collected.

Trust me, they don't charge people with things like this unless they can back it up with evidence. Law enforcement wants to be reliable and trustworthy with the public, and charging people for stuff that isn't supported by evidence is just silly for them to do, particulalry in cases like these. I am not claiming that law enforcement is perfect. There have been many times when they have made mistakes that have let bad people off, but it is far more rare when they charge someone that is entirely innocent.

Your situation was quite different than his in my opinion. They had no supporting evidence other than his word against yours.

Brian G.

I agree with David, Pete and others. Points have been made. Nothing will be settled. So, lets move on.

It would be my suggestion that we delete this thread in order to move on. Otherwise, people will keep adding posts. Which is o.k. if that's what the concensus is.

Ed,

It's important to me that people be able to voice their opinion on this matter. I think most who may come upon this thread will see their opinion mirrored by those of previous posters and won't feel the need to duplicate what's already been said.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA

Well now...

This ain't your ordinary Engraver's Forum!

Spirited, well articulated exchanges of philosophies, beliefs and opinions.

I gotta make Quark's next year.

Keep on Keepin' on!

LL

Lloyd,
Quarks was TAME compared to this thread.
What I really like is that we can all share our opinions here, good bad or otherwise, then go play in the Quarks sandbox and be nice......pretty cool

LLoyd,

I'm heading out for a little shopping trip with the family. When I get back, I think you'll find the direction I plan to take this very interesting.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA

I think an important point of all of this is that we can "disagree with each
other without being disagreeable"

Everyone has opinons. The important thing is to listen and if we want
to disagree then do so in manner that is appropriate.

Glad to see that we can do that here.

Yes...I second Joe's note. Let's please, please, please keep this forum focused on information, techniques, tips, advice, etc. and not let it follow another well-known forum into a degenerated state of name-calling, personal insults, complaints and paranoid ravings. This forum is heavily oriented toward good meaty information and respectful exchanges, and I for one want to see it stay that way.

Mark

Friends,

I am so impressed and pleased with the direction this thread has gone. I recommend we all take note of what has happened here and the message that is being sent. I, as a moderator, will do exactly that.

I am one who feels strongly about keeping the discussions here positive, productive and factual. I am so glad to see that I am in good company.

I do not ever want this to become a place for us to vent or make personal attacks. I have been on other forums where that tone has turned me off so much that I just don't go there much anymore. This forum is too important to me and my business to allow that to happen.

Even in situations dealing with a vendor customer service issue, I would like to see us all just lay out the facts and allow the others to draw their own conclusions. I wouldn't consider this vendor bashing at all, just sharing an experience.

It's all good! :-)

David,

It was June 25th of last year when I first heard of this story. Even though it was industry news, albeit of the worst kind, I was tempted to post the story.

The actual arrest took place May 17th of last year; oddly enough, just shortly after the ARA show in Vegas, where I spoke to Stephen, face-to-face, for the very first time.

After discussing my dilemma with a few people, I decided not to post. That decision was based on the personal nature of the news.

If the allegations had (i.e.) been based on falsifying test reports of laser equipment, or any other scenario which could directly affect a person's buying decisions, I would have posted immediately.

Since news of the arrest broke on DSSI first, I decided to hang back, and was actually surprised it didn't become a topic here.

My prediction is that Stephen will regain his prominence. Barring a loss of freedom.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA

Brian,

You seem to be up on the facts of this story more than most. I know there was a preliminary trial, set for early January, which (reportedly) was continued to early March. The 4th, I believe.

Any news as to if the trial actually took place?

I've asked the same question of another DSSI/EE forum member, who was interested in the proceedings.

No news yet.

The public's tolerance of some crimes, over others, has always struck me as odd. I always thought murder was the highest crime a person could possibly commit.

O.J. Simpson, a person found responsible (in civil court) for a double homicide, would probably win a popularity contest over Stephen Spence.

Bizarre.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA