BTW Harvey,

I donated $200 dollars worth of product or services to the logo contest because I value this forum.

Cheap I am not.

Where do I say or imply that they are building it from scratch?

I will let the others, David L, David T, or Harvey answer the specifics changes that have been made. I know that David L is a total novice when it comes to code and that is one of the reasons for the need for a programmer/designer.

Dave

David,
I enjoy the forum and probably get much more from it than I give. Having said that, most experienced people in the industry could easily get by without the forum if need be. For me, it is entertaining and informative, but not essential.

I believe that you will lose more of the experienced people than you think. You will also have difficulty getting newbies to pay for something if they do not know if there will be adequate value in return.

Throw the switch, see if the lights come on or if it is dark.

I'm getting dizzy here guys. Things are going in circles ....

Some comments...

Sei .... just because you haven't had training or attended seminars does not mean you do not have valuable knowledge. You could attend a training seminar and discover you know far more then the teacher due to your work experience.

Rallyguy.... your question has not been answered. How many of you purchased your equipment without knowing what you paid for or looked at the specs? He is asking a valid question.

Michel

Michel,

No one ever said how the paid format of the website and/or forum would be presented. Based on the comments here, it would be a good idea to give folks a sneak preview once it is developed.

There is another thread (Website Wish List) that was started to give everyone the opportunity to contribute their thoughts as to what features and benefits would be most beneficial to them.

I want to apologize for even asking the original question or posing the suggestion.

Had I known it would become all of this I never would have...... I think I hear the recess bell. Lets go play in the sandbox......

Chuck,

I think the questions are good for the thought process. Your suggestion was a good one, and should be considered. (I assume it will be if I know the people that run this forum well enough). Don't mistake tough questions for criticism. I think we all want the same thing here....a great forum. Sometimes the self examination of why we do things and what we want to do to make them better can be painful. In the end, I see a better forum out of all of it.

Brian G.

Wow Brian. We totally agree on this one.

Not a first but a little unusual.

Philadelphia, PA (Really Bensalem)

Harvey's Tips Page When you finally understand it completely... it changes.

I realise that I have been pushing the pedal hard on this one Harvey.....Even so....I think that we probably see eye to eye more often than not.

I don't think anyone wants to go through a change like the software again without some previous question and answer/suggestion time. Including you :) 

Brian G.

I can't believe I've missed this whole conversation until now, but once I started reading it, I could not stop. As I read, I jotted down some of the really good ideas others mentioned, and came up with a few of my own - so here goes:

If the cost is to be $75 per year, I would consider that, for me, to be one of the better business investments I could make during the year. I would liken it to attending a constant trade show, where I could pop in and out of class, but look what I would save on hotel and airfare costs.

One common thread on this forum is to charge what you are worth, and stop thinking that the word profit is a dirty word. If there is a charge for this forum + the added features, so what? If someone wants to make a business out of this, again, so what? How is that so bad? I just was catching up on reading some trade journals while engraving a bunch of switch plates, and read about Mike Davis and his Engravers Journal journey. How would this be so different? Do you think you should not pay for a subscription to the very valuable information gathered by Engravers Journal? I just don't see why someone shouldn't be allowed to make an on-line trade journal a business and why they should be raked over the coals for doing so.

The idea of having to post for a few times before being permitted to access the pay site is intriguing. I think Laura might have mentioned this in regards to a photo site? Might be a thought to look at closer.

10 day trial for newbies should give them all the insight they need to realize the value to their business growth. If they don't sign up then, they will remember the site and return when they think it is of value to them and they are ready to join.

Having the pay site as a higher alternative off the free site, or having the free site as an alternative for those who don't want to pay for more is perfectly acceptable and part of the land of the free and free trade and all that. No one said there could not be both sites. Just as no one is making anyone pay. You don't have to pay, but don't begrudge others if some people want to pay to receive higher benefits. Again, free choice. It will be up to those who don't want to move to the pay site to keep the free site going and I think who ever takes it on will find it is a lot of work.

Advertising - as long as the suppliers don't end up calling the shots, and there is a board of ethics to monitor who is allowed to advertise, this could be good. But why do we need the advertising dollars if members are paying to join?

Enough for now. I don't like to pay for more than I have to, but this would really be just like subscribing to my trade journals and well worth it.

Laura - at least subscribe to Engravers Journal if nothing else!

Give me lots of notice, and perhaps even a personal e-mail before going to the pay format. As you can tell, I don't check in every day. Some days I don't get to my desk at all. So don't disappear without telling me! I value this site a lot. You have all helped me out many, many times, and saved me, or made me, lots of profit. I don't consider it taking time away from earning a living to spend time here catching up - I consider it an investment in my business and part of the cost of doing business.

Now, let me get a little bit mushy here, which is so not my style - I know David L. is the main designer of this forum, and I want to say thank you David for the time you have put in to make this a really great site as it is. And thank you to David T. and Harvey for moderating (did I just forget another moderator? - if so, please accept my thanks too). It does take time to moderate and design and keep things going, and you don't do this for a free site for any other reason than to increase professionalism and knowledge in our industry. So please accept my gratitude for your time and efforts on all of our behalf.

Cindy M

sorry Chuck, I was just talking about the forum, not the thread. Although I must say, with your little posting there, you started quite the discussion, which was probably way overdue. Cleared a lot of the air I would say and got people talking about the different values of the forum.
So thank you Chuck for bringing up the topic!
Cindy M

Cindy,

It was just my sick twisted sarcastic wit showing it's ugly face again......

I'll go back in the corner now.

Cindy,
I wondered where you were on this topic. I too think of this site as an instant trade magazine with the added benefit of having many many consultants. This board has given me many valuable money making ideas, has instantly helped me when I had a problem, has allowed me to vent when necessary, has made me think out of MY box and on top of that we have met some really great people. I think this place is worth a great deal.

Dee

Philadelphia, PA (Really Bensalem)

I can't say I agree with you more David.

Excellent post.

Brian