Crowded text - Engraving Etc. Forum

From:	Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)	31 May 2006
To:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	5 of 28

3981.5 In reply to 3981.3

I hope you charge for letters over a certain amount, that usually helps the customer decide also. I refer to that as a bible on a binder plate. (Yes I have done some binder plates with .07 tall letters and 40% interline spacing.) But surprise, the customer usually says that it was great engraving. All in the eyes of the beholder. P.S. I refuse to engrave binders with lettering below .05" tall, don't ask.

The opposite of that is when there is not enough said, also very difficult to get to look good. Too many ornaments to fill also mess it up.

Philadelphia, PA (Really Bensalem)

Harvey's Tips Page When you finally understand it completely... it changes.

From:	Dee (DEENA-ONLY)	31 May 2006
To:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	6 of 28

3981.6 In reply to 3981.1

Chuck,
If I have the time and the customer is nice I will do 2 layouts. Sometimes I print it out other times I show it to them on the screen and ask them to chose the one they like best. I would guess 50% of the time when they see it on paper we come to a compromise, 30% let me do it my way and 20% say their way is just the way they want it. Most people thank me for the time I take.

A sweet plaque story. We have a display up that is a duplicate of a memorial plaque we did for a family. It has a picture of a woman with her date of birth and death on each side. It is followed by a lengthy poem. About once a month her teenage granddaughter comes in and "talks" to Grandma. Sometimes she "shows her an article of clothing she has purchased and she "asks" Grandma what she thinks. At other times she just kisses her fingers and "touches" Grandma's face and says hi.

I always think what a wonderful relationship they must have had and it always reminds me how much care we must take with the things we do.

Dee

Philadelphia, PA (Really Bensalem)

From:	Rob (AWARDZZ)	1 Jun 2006
To:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	7 of 28

3981.7 In reply to 3981.1

Hey Chuck;

We def. show them plaque samples that we have made up... some intentionally overcrowded... than we try to explain to them in very professional terms what looks good and what looks not as nice.. we let them know that we have been doing this for over 13 years and the majority of our clients appreciate our expertise...at that moment we say " if this is what you really want, we'll be more than happy to do it, but please don't be disappointed when you see the final layout" of course it might look a bit better if you went to the next size up....(hey whats wrong with upselling if they have a lot of text)..
anyway just food for thought...
Regards
Rob

Robert J. Simpson

PlayAll Awards & Engraving
Ashtabula, OH
(on the sunny southern shores of Lake Erie)

From:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	1 Jun 2006
To:	Dee (DEENA-ONLY)	8 of 28

3981.8 In reply to 3981.6
quote: A sweet plaque story. We have a display up that is a duplicate of a memorial plaque we did for a family. It has a picture of a woman with her date of birth and death on each side. It is followed by a lengthy poem. About once a month her teenage granddaughter comes in and "talks" to Grandma. Sometimes she "shows her an article of clothing she has purchased and she "asks" Grandma what she thinks. At other times she just kisses her fingers and "touches" Grandma's face and says hi. That is so cool. On another note, I think maybe Harvey gave me the solution. I will get together a price list that includes x lines of engraving. Additional lines up to x will be charged at .35 cents a letter. There will be a limit on the number of lines I will put on a plaque, plate or award. What do you think?

From:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	1 Jun 2006
To:	Rob (AWARDZZ)	9 of 28

3981.9 In reply to 3981.7
Robert, you have some good ideas.......once I get my showroom set up, I'll take them to heart.....unfortunately what is happening is that they select the product, and THEN come back with the text...... I guess I need to start asking what they want to put on the award when we first start the process huh?

From:	Dave Jones (DAVERJ)	1 Jun 2006
To:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	10 of 28

3981.10 In reply to 3981.9
You might want to also draw up some suggested maximum words per plaque size for what looks good vs some absolute maximum that will fit. Then they have a guideline to look at before they compose their text.

From:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	1 Jun 2006
To:	Dave Jones (DAVERJ)	11 of 28

3981.11 In reply to 3981.10
quote: ou might want to also draw up some suggested maximum words per plaque size for what looks good vs some absolute maximum that will fit. Then they have a guideline to look at before they compose their text. Dave, Great idea. Any suggestions on how to begin?

From:	Rob (AWARDZZ)	1 Jun 2006
To:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	12 of 28

3981.12 In reply to 3981.9

Chuck;

We try to find out the style/model of plaque and verbage at the same time. However, if they pick out a plaque and say they'll be back with the text, I'll ask them to email or fax , that way, I can have a proof made up and send back.
For thought starters for customers we have a book at the front desk that we call thought starters... different headings... retirement, achievement,
sales, congrads etc... these come from plaques that we were really happy with, and some verbage from the local hallmark card shop....
Once the client sees examples and sees the brevity .... they SHOULD get the idea...

Good Luck
Rob

Robert J. Simpson

PlayAll Awards & Engraving
Ashtabula, OH
(on the sunny southern shores of Lake Erie)

From:	Dave Jones (DAVERJ)	1 Jun 2006
To:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	13 of 28

3981.13 In reply to 3981.11
quote: Any suggestions on how to begin? Maybe pick a couple of random plaques and do a mockup on the computer using some random text. Make it as dense as you think looks good and then count how many words per square inch that averages to. Then do another one that is a bit too dense and count how many words per square inch that is. Then maybe you could come up with a rough guideline that says "For a space of x square inches you can fit xxx words or less, and if you limit yourself to xxx words it will look even better". (or define it by number of letters instead of words)

From:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	1 Jun 2006
To:	Dave Jones (DAVERJ)	14 of 28

3981.14 In reply to 3981.13
quote: if you limit yourself to xxx words it will look even better". Dave, By limiting words to xxx are you suggesting my customers swear? ( insert gregarious laugh here) (devil)

From:	Dave Jones (DAVERJ)	1 Jun 2006
To:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	15 of 28

3981.15 In reply to 3981.14
See how things change over time? 200 years ago xxx represented triple distilled spirits, since you were taxed once for each distillation and the tax collector marked an X on the barrel for each taxation. :'-(

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	1 Jun 2006
To:	ALL	16 of 28

3981.16
I say, if they're paying, give them what they want, regardless of letter count etc. It sounds is if you've done due diligence, in offering your expert opinion, regarding a tasteful layout. From there, it's their choice. David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	1 Jun 2006
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	17 of 28

3981.17 In reply to 3981.16
quote: I say, if they're paying, give them what they want, regardless of letter count etc. David, I have tried to convince myself of that also, but if "what they want" causes a product to "look" bad or "read" bad, WHO is the reflection on? It is on the award dealer NOT the customer....how does one combat THAT?

From:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	1 Jun 2006
To:	UncleSteve	19 of 28

3981.19 In reply to 3981.18
quote: Uh, put your COMPETITOR'S sticker on the back? (devil "I" have no competition B-) ( insert laugh here)
EDITED: 1 Jun 2006 by C_BURKE

From:	Franklin (FW_HAYNES)	1 Jun 2006
To:	ALL	20 of 28

3981.20 In reply to 3981.6
Generally, when I am doing a sign for someone that has alot of text I will play around with it and try to give the customer a few designs simply because alot of times I have to remember that many times, customers see something in their head and do not see it accurately, nor do they always understand what I am describing to them. A picture is truly worth a thousand words, so if you have time, do a mock up of what they described they want and then at least one of what you invision. The glass is neither half empty or half full; it is, however, ready to accept more.

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	1 Jun 2006
To:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	21 of 28

3981.21 In reply to 3981.17
Chuck, Some people love to art direct, although what they see in their mind, may not be what they had in mind, once they see the final product. In those cases, I agree with Franklin. Present them with a proof of their concept and one of your own. Once you've won a customer over, with your tasteful layouts, I doubt they'll question your expertise in the future. If people want proof, after proof, after proof -- give them what they want -- for charge, after charge, after charge. David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	id (OVERMAN)	1 Jun 2006
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	22 of 28

3981.22 In reply to 3981.21
On the same line I have upset costomers by refusing to do all capitals in script or old english even when they insist, I have told thjem to go elsewhere, jim

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	2 Jun 2006
To:	id (OVERMAN)	23 of 28

3981.23 In reply to 3981.22
Jim, I've occasionally gotten that request as well, even though I've been able to talk people out of it, by showing them an example of how it would appear. If a person can't be talked out of that horrendous use of typography, you can be sure it's a plaque that won't carry my label on the back. :S David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	Ken D. (KDEVORY)	2 Jun 2006
To:	ALL	24 of 28

3981.24

It's getting a bit silly, but how about a sticker on the back that reads:
"manufactured to customer specifications by ***"

This reminds me of other threads on matching existing tacky awards that don't change from year to year.

If its a new customer do you want them to come back? Back when I bought my car, one salesman only wanted to sell a model he felt was "age appropriate", not the one I was interested in. Needless to say, I went elsewhere. (different dealer & brand)

Ken Devory Jr.