Sawgrass discontinues some Epson 3000 carts

From:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	3 Feb 2007
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	12 of 18

5944.12 In reply to 5944.11

My thought on it would be that since Epson has released the 4800 perhaps a lot of people have simply upgraded their equipment so orders for the 3000 cartridges may be down. But I don't follow it all the closely, so it is just a guess as to a possible reason.

When I first got interested in sublimation about two years ago, the folks at Alpha Supply spent considerable time talking to me, and related a story about a fellow that had allowed his printer to sit unused for 6 or 8 months. He called them and asked if he had ruined it by doing that. Alpha supply suggested he just shake the cartridges real well and it should work.

He did and it did. Urban Legend? Who knows...but it sounded good.

I know there has been a lot of contention surrounding Sawgrass, but so far ( a year) I have had absolutely no problems with them, the ink or my 4800. Perhaps I'm just lucky.

Luck at least to be part of a GREAT forum.

From:	logojohn	3 Feb 2007
To:	ALL	13 of 18

5944.13 In reply to 5944.12
I don't care about the ink wars or who is suing who. I just want something easy and reliable and predictable to get the job done without needing a rocket science degree in how things work or color correction. I don't want to build one, I just want to get the job done quickly and move on. The sawgrass ink has made sublimation a lot easier and predictable for me. The problem of matching colors is virtually removed using their free "power driver". I can use customer eps or even jpgs and not need to tweak anything for color correction. They even have a pulldown menu to select substrate and color such as silver, gold or white metal. Messing with finding and setting up this or that icc profile is too much work IMHO. We don't use sublimation for everything. A customer comes in with a need and we will use whatever process will work best. If they want a color logo or photo on badges or plaques the best fit is usually sublimation. We just make sure the charge is enough to even cover the single $75 dollar cartridges for the c88 without trying to refill them. That charge is still much less and quicker that the presublimation option - silkscreening or pad printing especially on each piece name changes or small quantities. For gradients and photos the sublimation is actually a lot better. We still send out larger runs for pad printing or screening, especially t-shirs and caps. I am not going to decide if the ink is too much. I just quote a cost to the customer and let them decide. I rarely get feedback that the sublimation is too much. They are usually glad we can even do color. If somebody is wanting $10 color plaques, they have come to the wrong place anyway. If the ink was free I still couldn't do it time-wise. There is never a lack of things to sell that can make money. We did a big run of 1x3 sublimation plates. The ink cost $100 but the billing was $2000. I don't begrudge sawgrass for getting their cut. --------------- The OEM laser toner is supposedly cheaper because of using OEM toner. But I have tried all 3 brands of paper with mixed results. I can get the settings just right but you can never be sure one piece won't have the ink come off with the transfer, completely stick to it or not stick at all. For big runs I can eventually tweak it to make it work but you need to plan on a few or many wasted practice pieces. I am skeptical of the new color processes coming out to. Anybody can get a display piece but how many attempts did it take. Is the procedure foolproof and repeatable or is each one going to require a lot of luck. lj

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	3 Feb 2007
To:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	15 of 18

5944.15 In reply to 5944.12

Chuck,

Can you tell that those of us who have been involved with sublimation long enough to have used and seen (high quality) inexpensive ink disappear from the landscape, remain a little bitter? :-)

You bring up a good point, in that, the Epson 3000 (although the original workhorse) has been supplanted by newer technology.

That, more than the price of ink, is probably the primary reason for the discontinuance of the extended 3000 cartridges.

I agree with LJ, that despite the price of ink, the ink jet sublimation process is still the best tool for some jobs and that's why I'm still a fan of the process.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA

EDITED: 3 Feb 2007 by DGL

From:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	3 Feb 2007
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	16 of 18

5944.16 In reply to 5944.15
quote: I agree with LJ, that despite the price of ink, the ink jet sublimation process is still the best tool for some jobs and that's why I'm still a fan of the process. With my limited experience, I have to agree, but I think the key is to get the jobs that you can price high enough or have a high enough perceived value that you can justify the cost of the inks. With that said, it seems that the per piece cost of ink and paper is still minimal....again, in my admittedly "limited" experience. Spoken by someone still trying to launch. :-(

From:	JHayes55	3 Feb 2007
To:	ALL	17 of 18

5944.17 In reply to 5944.16
An interesting discussion for me. We have had an Epson 3000 for about 6 years. All in all it has been a pretty good machine for us. When we first purchased it we used Sawgrass - after much trouble with clogging and most of the ink going for repeated cleaning we decided to go change to Artanium ink, since that time we have had much better success. Knowing that this 3000 is getting some age we are making plans for the next step. I have toyed some with using my OKI, special papers and OEM - have not sold myself on this process yet. I have also been doing some looking at using the sublimation toners in the OKI - I know that AL who visits here from time to time has it listed on this web site. Has anyone used his toners in an OKI? I need to give him a call or maybe find out if he plans on being a Las Vegas - would love to see some of his samples. The majority of our sublimation is trophy metal for inexpensive plaques or name badges - we do several mugs, christmas ornaments, and mouse pads during the holidays. From what I have read on AL's site (cannot think of the name right now and I am not at the shop computer where it's bookmarked) you can use the sub toners on all the same things we are currently doing.

From:	Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)	3 Feb 2007
To:	ALL	18 of 18

5944.18

I knew Paul somewhat, (Artaniun), and Bob Smith, (Color Factory), very well. The most non-clogging ink was The Color Factory.

Where my objection to the Sawgrass pricing was that the ink cost $15 per liter, and was sold for $1000 per liter in bulk to customers. And the customers of Artanium and Color Factory were threatened with legal actions by Sawgrass.

Philadelphia, PA (Really Bensalem)

When you finally understand it completely... it changes.