Lisa,
I find it interesting that Hilary garners a great deal of respect from many of the citizens of NY. She is a brilliant women with a great deal of moxie. If she runs not only will she have my vote she will have a little bit of my money.

It is a good thing the Beach Party is about engraving & not politics!

Dee

Philadelphia, PA (Really Bensalem)

The end game/objective was to remove an evil dictator and hand the country back to the people that live there.

We did the first part. We seem to have a problem doing the second part.

They want their religious leaders to control the government. But there are three opposing religions that have been at war with each other for centuries. By staying there we are not, and never will, bring them lasting peace. All we will do is unite the three religious orders against us. At least long enough for us to leave, and then they'll be back at each other's throats. So the only difference between leaving now and in another year or two is how many of our children we allow to die at their hands.

We tried to take peace and democracy to Korea. We tried to take peace and democracy to Vietnam. Peace came about there when we we forced to leave. Democracy is still not there.

You can remove a dictator from power, but if you try to force your ideals onto the people in another country, it won't last if it's not what they want.

I guess the difference between us is that you have given up hope, and I have not.

I believe the military is in a much better position to determine if what you are saying is accurate. They have boots on the ground, and should be able to determine what actions are appropriate at this point.

I believe we have lost the propaganda war and have lost support because of this........You never see any news about the positive developments, only the horrific ones. It's the same thing that makes people feel dejected about society here.....Eventually if you keep hearing bad things about yourself (and your society), you start to believe them, and fall into a self fulfilled prophesy.

Although I agree with your sentiments about the religious factions and risk of civil war, I dissagree with you that we should pull out and bring our military home. Far more problems will come from that....I've already outlined them so I won't repeat myself.

I definitely agree that neither of us really knows what it's like being there at the moment and can only guess at what might happen if we stay or leave.

I'm not so convinced though that the army leaders are the best ones to decide when to leave. They might know if it's hopeless, in which case it's obviously time to go. But I'm not sure that they know the best things to do to change the situation over there into one where we are not needed anymore. They are trained in fighting and winning wars, but that doesn't make them diplomats or foreign policy experts or experts on how foreign societies think and work.

I think it takes a smart president, diplomats, and foreign affairs advisors to make those choices, of course after hearing the state of affairs from the military leaders.

Chuck,

You're such a rabble-rouser! This is even more fun than the recent _____________________ thread & that really fun __________________ thread. :-)

Giuliani informed his second wife, Donna Hanover, of his intention to seek a separation in a 2000 press conference. The announcement was precipitated by a tabloid frenzy after Giuliani marched with his then-mistress, Judith Nathan, in New York's St. Patrick's Day parade, an acknowledgement of infidelity so audacious that Daily News columnist Jim Dwyer compared it with "groping in the window at Macy's." In the acrid divorce proceedings that followed, Hanover accused Giuliani of serial adultery, alleging that Nathan was just the latest in a string of mistresses, following an affair the mayor had had with his former communications director.

What a great leader he would make. (insert shaking head here)

Greg

Was it kept private??

Was it used by the opposition ad nauseum.
The party that claims to be the party of high moral standards.

Its a party of hypocrites

Give me a break.