Cactus Mugs - Engraving Etc. Forum

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	22 Dec 2005
To:	Mick	1 of 17

2539.1
Mick, I don't print very many (sublimation) mugs, but the last case I ordered was from you, while the Cactus mugs were being coated domestically, with Dyemond coat. At the time, Cactus had a choice of regular and "premium" mugs, with the difference being straighter sides. My mugs were noticeably "whiter" than the mugs from Peng. Now, I'm ready to order more mugs. I realize Cactus mugs are now being coated in China, but here's my question: If I order Cactus mugs, is there still a choice in quality (premium) and can I still expect a whiter mug? David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	Mick	22 Dec 2005
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	2 of 17

2539.2 In reply to 2539.1
As you know David, I am no longer involved in the coating end of it. I only have the Equipment and Supplies. The last formulations that I provided to the Chinese operation should have the whitest output available, as long as they are formulating correctly. They (Marck) should have the premium mugs. The "Dyemond" coating is no longer available, took too long to sublimate. The RN coating they have is your best bet for a match. Mick Cactus Equipment & Supplies 800-440-6847

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	22 Dec 2005
To:	Mick	3 of 17

2539.3 In reply to 2539.2
Thank you Mick. I'll order the mugs from Marck and let the forum know how they compare to what I was using in the past. David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY)	22 Dec 2005
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	4 of 17

2539.4 In reply to 2539.3
I just pressed two cases for a local Photo Shop. I love the quality of the 12oz mugs........(marck) .... ... .. . Mark In the Great Northwest!

From:	Peter	22 Dec 2005
To:	ALL	5 of 17

2539.5

Question:

with a product like mugs...

As I have no Idea how they are made.
I will assume...

They are extruded from clay and fired in a kiln ???

Why cant the Yanks make and sell a product mechanically, that requires little or no labor, simply a mechanical production process to produce each one?
as cheaply as the Chinese ? or competitively at least

excuse my total ignorance ..

regards
Peter

Peter Vasic
Engraving Services Co.
Adelaide, Australia.
http://www.engravingservices.com.au

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	23 Dec 2005
To:	PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY)	6 of 17

2539.6 In reply to 2539.4
Thank you Mark. Looks like I can order with confidence. :-) David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	23 Dec 2005
To:	Peter	7 of 17

2539.7 In reply to 2539.5
Peter, Mick will probably have your answer, but I'll take a guess and say it's the wide chasm in labor costs, which, as with many products, sees them made overseas. Dollars per hour = US Cents per hour = China David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	Mick	23 Dec 2005
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	8 of 17

2539.8 In reply to 2539.7
David You are correct. Lots of labor in making the basic glazed mug. If you look closely, the handles are not always straight up and down, they have to be attached by hand. Also alot of labor involved in the coating operation (unboxing, washing,spraying, inspecting, bagging, re-boxing, etc.. Mick Cactus Equipment & Supplies 800-440-6847

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	23 Dec 2005
To:	Mick	9 of 17

2539.9 In reply to 2539.8
Mick, Something else I might add. China isn't held to the same strict EPA standards that U.S. manufacturers must adhere to. It's not inexpensive to install and maintain scrubbers, filters, etc., etc. David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	John (JOHNRMONTG)	23 Dec 2005
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	10 of 17

2539.10 In reply to 2539.1
David ... sorry to 'butt' in here but for my 2 cents worth I use (only one case experience so far) the 11 oz mugs from JDS which I believe is pretty closeby to you. I don't have a reference, or a comparison but for what I could see the white is very good and I have had exceptional luck sublimating them. Clarity and color is very good ... especially when compared to the mariad of other sublimatable products out there. I have read with interest, I might add, on the DSSI forum about the new Cactus coatings so I am quite interested as well since I am also in the 'market' for a case of mugs real soon. I was looking at post 4336.1 and the colors looked brighter on the new mugs and performance was impressive but was hard to 'guage' the color of the base mug but it looked pretty darned white. Are you trying to get 'exact' color matching to previous mugs? I know from painting cars a long time ago that I was amazed when I started looking at the color charts and seeing just how many 'whites' there were! :-( Good luck and I am interested in what you find out and if I dare say, whom you ultimately purchase your next case from. John John & Alexa Montgomey Lakeshore Engraving

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	23 Dec 2005
To:	John (JOHNRMONTG)	11 of 17

2539.11 In reply to 2539.10
John, As you say, there are varying shades of white, but the Cactus mugs I've used were noticeably more white than the other mugs I've seen. I was also getting more crisp, more vibrant images. I'm aware of the JDS mugs, but haven't tried them. Could be they're fine, but I want to give the new Cactus mugs a try first. Thanks for your input. David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)	27 Dec 2005
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	12 of 17

2539.12 In reply to 2539.11

Hi David,

I have tried the new cactus mugs. (I recieved mine from Steve at Paramount Services Inc.) As far as color and "crispness" they are equal if not better than the R coated Mugs previously offered. They seem to handle the boil test very well (based on testing by Bob S. on the DSSI forum), and are supposed to be less costly (according to Cactus Bob) than the previous R coated style of mug.

I found little difference between the mugs in base color or dye absorbtion. If anything the new sample was a tad richer in color, but that is an unscientific observation, and I am not sure if it could be duplicated. I would say that the example that I had was at least equal if not better in every way to the former standard available from them.

Brian G.

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	27 Dec 2005
To:	RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)	13 of 17

2539.13 In reply to 2539.12
Thank you Brian. I came across the DSSI boil-test thread, after I posted here. Very informative thread. The reason I asked, is, a while back, I had to borrow a couple of mugs to fill out an order. I had to search through about 8 mugs, before I found two, without defects, which ranged from, what looked like dirt under the coating, to chips in the mugs. The color was almost "oatmeal" compared to the bright-white Cactus mugs I had been using. Sometimes, you just don't know what you have, til it's gone. Happy to know the Cactus mugs are still here. :-) David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)	27 Dec 2005
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	14 of 17

2539.14 In reply to 2539.13
quote: Sometimes, you just don't know what you have, til it's gone. Absolutely! That was the premise of my original complaint with Bob in one of those two threads....I'm glad they came through with something worthy of real world use.

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	28 Dec 2005
To:	Mick	15 of 17

2539.15 In reply to 2539.14
Mick, I realize you're out of the mug end of Cactus, but I thought you may know the answer to this. Today, I ordered a case of 12 oz. Cactus mugs from Marck & Assoc. I asked the person on the phone if there were choices between "Premium" or standard mugs and a choice of coatings, between the Rich Neely (RN) and the "new" Cactus formulation. I was told there was no differentiation between coatings or mug quality, other than the difference between inkjet and a coating for video printers. When I receive the mugs, I'll definitely comment on their quality. Is there a way, by looking at the mug (special marking on the mug itself?) or the shippping box, to know what coating is being used? David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	Mick	28 Dec 2005
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	16 of 17

2539.16 In reply to 2539.15
I don't know what you are getting ??? They have both the Versa and RN coatings still available I think, and also the standard and premium. Your best bet is to deal with Steve at Paramount Services, he knows far more than most of the order takers at Marck. Mick Cactus Equipment & Supplies 800-440-6847

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	28 Dec 2005
To:	Mick	17 of 17

2539.17 In reply to 2539.16

Mick,

I figured Steve would be up on the details. I only ordered from Marck because they're on the West Coast.

It's not that big a deal to me. I just like to be up to speed on the latest info regarding sublimation. It would be nice if the order takers were up to speed on the products they sell. :-)

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA

EDITED: 28 Dec 2005 by DGL