DSSI Engraving Folder / EE Announcement

From:	Upacreek	9 May 2006
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	201 of 220

3725.201 In reply to 3725.190
quote: I suspect more people are opposed to a pay site, based on principle, rather than outrage at the proposed subscription. I suspect it's the fact that all we have been told the fee will be $99/year and after we pay it, we will eventually find out what we will receive for that expense. We've all invested a lot of time and research into our businesses and equipment. Look at the number of questions people post when trying to make a decision about their next equipment purchase and if the expense is worth it. To expect us to pay for something that has no facts and data to indicate what we are receiving for this price, is only asking for resistance. quote: I suspect the reaction would have been just as acrid, at any price. I think you would have had a much more positive reaction if you had stated exactly what the member would have received for that price. Before you decided not to become an ARA member, you researched the membership benefits, right? That's all we're asking. What exactly are the benefits of paying $99/year for a membership? Michel

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	9 May 2006
To:	Upacreek	202 of 220

3725.202 In reply to 3725.201

Michel,

If you followed the "My Apologies" thread, I admitted to making my announcement prematurely and apologized for the resulting turmoil.

I was hoping to place a web page, detailing the benefits of joing the pay site, along with the EBS offer, sometime this week.

I'm swamped with work and efforts to create the page, may take longer.

As to your ARA question; a list of benefits, no matter how long or juicy, played no role, in my decision not to join ARA. My decision was based on a single principle, which I've already mentioned.

Some would say that's throwing the baby out with the bath water and in some ways that's true.

I call it standing by a principle and I'm suggesting that's exactly what we'll see from some people in this situation.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA

EDITED: 9 May 2006 by DGL

From:	Mike (BIGPIXEL)	9 May 2006
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	203 of 220

3725.203 In reply to 3725.200
quote: There are ways to provide hands-on instruction, while people are online. I guess you're right Dave. I could instruct digital photographers off a live web site. btw, who is your third partner? .
EDITED: 9 May 2006 by BIGPIXEL

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	9 May 2006
To:	Mike (BIGPIXEL)	204 of 220

3725.204 In reply to 3725.203

Mike,

You're the type of person we're willing to pay for that type of web instruction.

The way it was explained to me, is all the people involved, call into a conference call center and are given a password (very much like we did for our first TeleSeminar).

While on the phone, in front of their computers, people ask questions and are given live instruction, showing how to accomplish a given procedure.

It's kind of like a Camtasia Studio Flash Tutorial, except live.

Third partner?

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA

EDITED: 9 May 2006 by DGL

From:	RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)	10 May 2006
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	206 of 220

3725.206 In reply to 3725.202

Hi David,

I know this is a totaly different subject....but........

I understand why you have decided to not join the ARA. Since you have brought the ARA thing up a couple of times now.....I have been curious...........How do you seperate attending shows from joining the ARA? To me, both are supportive of the association. I understand why you go to the shows, and why you like to go, I just don't understand how you can justify the one but not the other. To me they seem to be the same entity that gets the benefit (payment) for your participation.

What makes the action of joining different from the action of participation for you in this situation?

I have always wondered how and why you view them so differently.

Thanks,

Brian Genrich

Rallye Productions Inc.
1-800-236-2036 x112
Custom cut, or sheet stock Sublimatable metal,
Screen printing, and other digital print services.

From:	Barbara (RGILE)	10 May 2006
To:	Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)	208 of 220

3725.208 In reply to 3725.88

Rodney,
I am a taker of information I will admit that. I am new to the business and have only been engraving for not quite two years. But, I have also been able to help others as well. I love doing it, because I am so grateful when I receive the help. It makes me feel good to know that I have given back to someone.
That said, I realize that we give our information freely, and it was wonderful. But nothing is free anymore, and we received a lot in the time that this forum has begun. I do not mind paying money to enhance my business and to make friends in the business along the way.
You have defiantly been a huge contribution to this forum with your knowledge that you have freely given. But no-one knows it all, and maybe someone will help you along the way, with an idea, or just plain encouragement. At any rate, it's your choice weather to continue with this or not. You have obviously been offended and when you take away the information that you have provided as an expert, it will be missed by everyone.
You have made the comment that the newbies will not be able to join. But David has offered them a month free, and that should show them the quality of something like this. He is also offering a free membership for those who do not have the means to join.

Rodney, this is hard for everyone, but we will miss you if you decide against it. Stay with it, I bet you will be happy that you did, and if you are not, no one will make you stay. Try it for the first month and see.
Barbara

Barbara Sample
RGile Engravers

From:	Funkmeister (FUNKY)	10 May 2006
To:	ALL	209 of 220

3725.209 In reply to 3725.20

Hey folks!!! Whatever you decide to do here inform me. The cost of this site is well worth any amount of $$$. Count me in on whatever is decided. I blow that amount of $$$ in a weekend on my bad habits.(no not women). And one more thing that's important to say. I really think the three of you need to be involved in this site. So David I think you need to put your pretty face back on this site. Let's move forward instead of backwards.
I don't know how anyone else feels, but this is my 2 cents worth.
I think we all know how valuable this site is to us all. Whatever is decided count me in. I need all the help I can get, and all of you folks
that visit and use this site should give yourself a pat on the back.

Remember one thing as I always say. "ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE."

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	10 May 2006
To:	RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)	211 of 220

3725.211 In reply to 3725.206
Brian, I believe in supporting ARA, when I use their service of providing our industry's most prominent trade show, which is ARA Las Vegas. $50 dollars is not too high a price to pay for that service. It's one of their products I feel is worth the cost. Industry trade shows, across the board, are shrinking; in large part, due to the exhorbitant costs of exhibiting, coupled with the increasing costs of attending. With that dynamic in place, it's not in ARA's best financial interest to decrease the size of its membership, in the least. Through the EE forum, we've seen examples of serious ethics violations, committed by (ARA member) industry suppliers and retailers alike. I don't blame ARA for not wanting to become involved in policing its members, although as an entity committed to representing the entire A&E industry, I feel it's their duty, in cases of irrefutable ethical misconduct, to at least have a mechanism in place to listen to their constituents, and if necessary, take action to remove chronic offenders from their roster. By not having such a mechanism in place, (in my opinion), it seems ARA is more interested in protecting its source of income, than the integrity of the industry. David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	10 May 2006
To:	Barbara (RGILE)	212 of 220

3725.212 In reply to 3725.208
quote: But David has offered them a month free, and that should show them the quality of something like this. He is also offering a free membership for those who do not have the means to join. Barbara, I don't remember saying that, but we are considering a 30-day free trial, once we become subscription-based, for those who don't take advantage of the advance registration offer. If we go that route, advance registrees will have an extra month added to their subscription. Those who join, through advance registration, will receive "Charter Member" status, for which they'll occasionally receive special offers and perks. Attending the annual "Beach Party" as my guests, will be one of the perks. David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA
EDITED: 10 May 2006 by DGL

From:	Barbara (RGILE)	10 May 2006
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	213 of 220

3725.213 In reply to 3725.212
Sorry David, I thought I saw that one. Anyway, this is getting tiring, I am going to take a little break from it. Hopefully there will be some good stuff to read besides this. You know how I feel about this, and that is important to me. Barb :D Barbara Sample RGile Engravers

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	10 May 2006
To:	Barbara (RGILE)	214 of 220

3725.214 In reply to 3725.213
Barbara, There was a lot said, in the heat of trying to alay concerns and appease all sides. I can't go back, to read all my posts, and those of others, to confirm or deny what was said. Like you, I'm a little worn down by this thread, which, by the way, is virtually the last thread I read, when coming to the forum. I'm committed to keeping my focus on the educational topics. David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	Barbara (RGILE)	11 May 2006
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	215 of 220

3725.215 In reply to 3725.214

Thanks, I am sure that will be appreciated by everyone. Time to move on with the people that will stay with the pay site. There are many free ones also, and I also frquent them. I just love this one the best.

Good Luck, I wish you well
Barbara

Barbara Sample
RGile Engravers

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	11 May 2006
To:	Barbara (RGILE)	216 of 220

3725.216 In reply to 3725.215
Barbara, I can't blame people for their outrage. I showed my hand, without showing my hand. Once I follow up with the features and benefits, I'll probably be accused of giving too much away, for too little. As long as I'm being accused of something, I'm happy. :-) David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	11 May 2006
To:	Barbara (RGILE)	217 of 220

3725.217 In reply to 3725.208
quote: You have obviously been offended Barbara, You had mentioned the above to Rodney. I suppose that is true..but what about the people that Rodney offended? I found the comment about "newbie leeches" VERY offensive......

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	12 May 2006
To:	gt350ed	219 of 220

3725.219 In reply to 3725.218
Ed, I agree. I've taken blame for the meltdown and apologized more than once. Things were said, in the heat of battle, that I'm sure all regret. This is a particularly busy time of year, for all in our industry and the focus should be on continuing with the educational aspect of the forum. David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA