BallStars-Be Careful - Engraving Etc. Forum

From:	precisionlaser	23 Jun 2006
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	21 of 71

4161.21 In reply to 4161.20
They may not be willing to publicly own up to this behavior, but it certainly does not end the matter for me. There are additional chapters of this book to come. Mark Dickens Precision Laser Art, LLC www.precisionlaserart.com 866-716-0300/901-888-1019

From:	UncleSteve	23 Jun 2006
To:	precisionlaser	22 of 71

4161.22 In reply to 4161.17
Mark, Just out of curiosity (being nosey?), does Ballstars assign territories to their distributors or is it open season for anyone and everyone who can find a phone number? "Genius ain't anything more than elegant common sense." Josh Billings

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	23 Jun 2006
To:	precisionlaser	24 of 71

4161.24 In reply to 4161.21
Mark, The topic of industry suppliers, competing for our business, isn't a new one. Where there used to be a line in the sand, now there is none. We look forward to periodic updates, as you attempt to close the book on this matter. David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	bobkat	24 Jun 2006
To:	UCONN Dave & Lynn too (DANDL48)	27 of 71

4161.27 In reply to 4161.26
Of course organized boycotts are legal. The immigrants did it just a short time ago by not going to work or school. People boycott things all the time like "lets all not buy gas on Sunday" (stupid). It is one of the few forms of protest we still have.

From:	UncleSteve	24 Jun 2006
To:	bobkat	28 of 71

4161.28 In reply to 4161.27
There is a major difference between a "general" boycott like "let's not go to work on any day with a "y" in it and boycotting a specific company. They may NOT win the suit, but you better be ready to pay for YOUR attorney if they decide to sue for damages. Especially if you were not a direct party to the incident and just a provocateur. "Genius ain't anything more than elegant common sense." Josh Billings

From:	bobkat	24 Jun 2006
To:	UncleSteve	29 of 71

4161.29 In reply to 4161.28
Show me an example of someone being sued for calling a boycott on a product, or service. Groups boycott things all the time. Right now, Jesse and Al are calling for a boycott of BP for price gouging. Christian groups call for a boycott of sponsors of TV programs they don't like. It is not illegal, and in the case of Jesse and Al (Jackson & Sharpton), it is a way to shake down these companies for money; they have been doing it for years. A perfect example would be Bill Oreilly calling for a boycott of all French goods: if there was a lawsuit to be had, the French Govt. has plenty of money to bring the suit, and Fox news has plenty to lose.
EDITED: 24 Jun 2006 by BOBKAT

From:	UncleSteve	24 Jun 2006
To:	bobkat	30 of 71

4161.30 In reply to 4161.29
Only cause we love ya and you asked: >NORWOOD FILES LAWSUIT > >INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA (March 2, 2004) -Norwood Promotional Products >announced today that the company has filed a lawsuit in the U.S. Federal >District Court for the Southern District of Indiana claiming violations of >federal and state antitrust laws. The action was taken against a group of >distributors in an effort to extinguish alleged anti-competitive activities >conducted by named defendants that has damaged Norwood's ability to conduct >business. > >CEO Tom Roller stated, "We are taking action against those distributors who >have attempted to damage our company and to interfere with our right to do >business. All other avenues have been exhausted. We are taking this and >other steps to make sure that business within our industry can be conducted >fairly and in accordance with the laws of this country." The ball is in YOUR court now, Mr. Kat.... :P "Genius ain't anything more than elegant common sense." Josh Billings

From:	bobkat	24 Jun 2006
To:	UncleSteve	31 of 71

4161.31 In reply to 4161.30
I appreciate that, but that doesn't tell me what it is they allegedly did. Did they take on exclusive territories and tie up distributorships for large parts of the country and then refuse to either relinquish said distributorships or sell the product? That would effectively render Norwood impotent, and any distributorship contracts may prevent them from conducting business directly in those areas. Of course, I am only speculating, since the fact set was incomplete, but that is an entirely different animal than someone saying on an internet forum that they will refuse to buy any products from any particular company. We have no hold on this company to keep them from going out and doing business with anyone they choose. (Which is what the problem was in the first place). That is what constitutes anti-trust violations; the key being our having some legal ability to stop them from conducting business, and then banding together to do so. If I used Ballstars products, and they did me like they did Mark, (allegedly), I would be 100% comfortable with my legal position in coming on here and saying "these guys engage in unethical business practices, (or sell substandard merchandise, or whatever), and I refuse to do business with them and you should too" My suggesting that anyone else boycott Ballstars (or whoever), is not binding on anyone here, and you can all tell me to go jump in the lake, (and some of you have!). Actually I HAVE said something very similar on here concerning "you know who". Back at ya :P

From:	UncleSteve	24 Jun 2006
To:	bobkat	32 of 71

4161.32 In reply to 4161.31
Five distributors were sued for discussing boycotting the named supplier for having both a wholesale AND retail division and allegedly going directly to the customer to solicit business after receiving large orders from distributors for the end user customer. Starting to sound a bit familiar? The supplier sued for attempting to destroy their company by badmouthing them and calling to stay away from them and any supplier that plays "both side of the street". Though the supplier eventually lost the final case, they put one (two?) of the distributors in bankruptcy because of the high cost of defending the suit and another managed to have his business insurance policy defend him and then drop him after the case was over. "Genius ain't anything more than elegant common sense." Josh Billings

From:	Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)	24 Jun 2006
To:	bobkat	33 of 71

4161.33 In reply to 4161.25

Bobkat,

You do not want to go there. You may be 100% right, but do you have deep enough pockets to defend that belief?

From:	bobkat	24 Jun 2006
To:	UncleSteve	34 of 71

4161.34 In reply to 4161.32
Again, you have distributors who have contractual responsibilities with the company, working together to restrict the business of the company. Completely different than this scenario. Anybody can sue you if they can find some crooked lawyer to take the case (and their money). Note also that they LOST the suit. If they sue me, all they will get is the debt on my equipment; you can't get blood out of a rock!

From:	Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)	24 Jun 2006
To:	bobkat	35 of 71

4161.35 In reply to 4161.31

Steve,

You hit it right on the head. This is the lawsuit that will get many people on forums to tread lightly with their negative comments.

I think that lawsuit was settled. I know of one who ended filing bankruptcy because of the expense of the legal defense. I know you are likely aware of who that was.

EDITED: 24 Jun 2006 by DATAKES

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	24 Jun 2006
To:	bobkat	36 of 71

4161.36 In reply to 4161.25
Bobkat, We supply a venue for the discussion of people's personal experiences. Who knows? There may be people with good things to say about Ballstars. Over the years, on this forum, I've been very critical of certain industry suppliers and manufacturers, to the point where some people felt I was pushing the limits of being challenged legally. With the truth and facts on my side, I was comfortable in my allegations. During those allegations, the word "Boycott" never crossed my lips. That act goes beyond personal experiences and isn't one I would consider becoming involved with. David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	UncleSteve	24 Jun 2006
To:	Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)	37 of 71

4161.37 In reply to 4161.35
Yup! THAT is the suit I was talking about... I know you belong to the other group so perhaps Bobkat will listen if you also back up the story. I also want to protect this forum from such happenings. "Genius ain't anything more than elegant common sense." Josh Billings

From:	Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)	24 Jun 2006
To:	UncleSteve	38 of 71

4161.38 In reply to 4161.37
I'm the same way. "Boycott " is a bad and unnecessary word to be used on this forum. Frankly, members can state the facts of their experience, and we will likely avoid companies who receive repetitive comments about bad service and/or products.

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	24 Jun 2006
To:	Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)	39 of 71

4161.39 In reply to 4161.38
David, I agree. Cream rises to the top...and...well...the opposite holds true for ethically-challenged companies. :-$ David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)	24 Jun 2006
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	40 of 71

4161.40 In reply to 4161.39

I think that anyone calling for a boycott here is going beyond the limits of the forum.

Telling your story in a factual basis is allowed and encouraged. Our members are intelligent and will make their decisions in a fully informed manor.

It may have the same basic results, but calling for a boycott is out in my opinion. This has not been discussed at length by the directors of this site, (OK laugh at that statement), but is my personal opinion, and I try to act on my personal ethics at all times that I can.

Philadelphia, PA (Really Bensalem)

When you finally understand it completely... it changes.