New Hermes Pantograph used - Engraving Etc. Forum

From:	Barbara (RGILE)	13 Oct 2006
To:	ALL	1 of 13

5087.1
Hello Everyone, Today, a jeweler that I have done work with call me and ask if I would be interested in a New Hermes Pantograh engraver. He doesn't know exactly how old it is, but I think from the sound of things it's at least 8 to 10 years old. He does not have his engraver anymore, and doesn't want to do it himself. He does have a small one (table size) for himself to do some small stuff. He says this one is a floor model, and is about 30x30. He has some of the fonts for me, and engraves with a diamond bit. He says he is not looking to make a lot of money on it, but would like to sell it for what it's worth. I told him that I would come here and ask if anyone has a ball park to be fair to both of us. I feel that it would enhance my business to learn this, as I have had many requests for things that I cannot do at present date. (I also would like to get away from cermark a little). Then I would be able to do coated material without worrying about it so much. My husband is going to look at it this afternoon, and I would appreciate some feedback if any of you have any ideas about what a machine like this is worth. Thanks in advance, Barbara PS, of course if I get it, then I have to learn how to use it. ha Barbara Sample RGile Engravers
EDITED: 13 Oct 2006 by DGL

From:	Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)	13 Oct 2006
To:	Barbara (RGILE)	2 of 13

5087.2 In reply to 5087.1

It sounds like it might be a floor model.

The Model number, if it has a cylindrical attachment, and the way the name and address is placed on the serial number plate. The address, exactly as it appears, will help also.

The size and number of fonts will also help, along with how many lower case 'e's there are in each font will also make a difference. The fonts were categorized by how many 'e's were in it. The more 'e's the more letters in the package.

Philadelphia, PA (Really Bensalem)

When you finally understand it completely... it changes.

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	13 Oct 2006
To:	Barbara (RGILE)	3 of 13

5087.3 In reply to 5087.1

Barbara,

Seeing pictures of the machine would help, but styles of jigs, and the number of typefaces and their size (number of pieces per set) will be where the most value is.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA

EDITED: 13 Oct 2006 by DGL

From:	Barbara (RGILE)	13 Oct 2006
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	4 of 13

5087.4 In reply to 5087.3
Hi David and Harvey, I have not seen the machine yet. He did tell me that he has some of the fonts but not all of them, that I would have to buy some for it. He did say it was a floor model. 30 x30 approximetly. Rick is going to look at it today. I just didn't even have any idea what it would be worth today. He said in the catalogs they go for 4500.00 and the font's about 315.00. He realizes that it's older and stuff, but was reluctant to give me a price for it. He did say he wasn't looking to make a lot of money on it, but wanted a fair price for it. Sooooo, that's why I turned here. He doesn't know any more about what to ask for it than I do to offer a price for it. Barbara Barbara Sample RGile Engravers

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	13 Oct 2006
To:	Barbara (RGILE)	5 of 13

5087.5 In reply to 5087.4

Barbara,

I bought my GTX-Universal, with some type and jigs, (used), for $1,000.

I sold a machine, which I think is the same as you're describing, without type, for $400.

Catalog prices for these machines mean very little, since the advent of computerized equipment.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA

EDITED: 13 Oct 2006 by DGL

From:	Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)	13 Oct 2006
To:	Barbara (RGILE)	6 of 13

5087.6 In reply to 5087.4

Considering what that style is going for on Ebay lately, $4500 seems very steep. Maybe it has a lot of extras, a lot.

If I remember correctly they were going for about $1200-$1400. UncleSteve will have a better idea. (Do not take these prices as gospel, it is a sort of type of memory.)

Philadelphia, PA (Really Bensalem)

When you finally understand it completely... it changes.

From:	Barbara (RGILE)	13 Oct 2006
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	7 of 13

5087.7 In reply to 5087.5
Hi Dave, I just spoke to my husband, and he does not think it is a good idea to do this. He said it's taking a step backward since a lot of competitiors have computerized engravers. He said this is like tracing, and it would take some time to do it. The guy told him he would take 1300.00 for it. my husband told me if I still wanted to look at it, to see if I could do it, that I could make the decision, but he didn't sound very enthused about it. I don't want to invest 1300.00 and then have to buy fonts for 300.00 and find out that I don't like it, and it is sitting around. The whole idea was to expand my expertise, and do things brought into me without refferring someone else to do it. I actually do not know much about this type of engraving. I have seen the computerized ones, and they seem nice, but I don't know about this. Barb Barbara Sample RGile Engravers

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	13 Oct 2006
To:	Barbara (RGILE)	8 of 13

5087.8 In reply to 5087.7
Barbara, There's a definite learning curve to operating a pantograph. Even though they're capable of engraving some things that can't be done any other way, they're not production machines. You'll notice that the items I'm engraving on a pantograph are usually short-runs or one-of-a-kind. For $1300, you may be able to buy a used computerized system, although it wouldn't have cylindrical capability. If you go the inexpensive, computerized route, I'm still a fan of the New Hermes Vanguard 3000's. Why? 1) They're workhorses, with excellent letter quality. 2) Nice, deep vise, that will allow you to hold a wider variety of items than any flatbed machine is capable of. 3) Quality One Engravers has plenty of parts and repair services for that machine. David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	13 Oct 2006
To:	Barbara (RGILE)	10 of 13

5087.10 In reply to 5087.9
My pleasure Barbara, Either way you go, having rotary/drag capability is an area you'll want to add to your business. Lasers are wonderful tools, but as you're finding out, they can't do everything and those voids are where you'll find your niche(s). The only reason I don't own a laser, is that working behind the scenes for my fellow engravers gives me plenty of access to their laser equipment. David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	Mike (MIKEN)	13 Oct 2006
To:	ALL	11 of 13

5087.11 In reply to 5087.10
I just purchased and excellent machine (GTX Super) a floor model with motor and diamond drag for $1200. I bought some extras including fonts so I now have a total of $1450 invested. Fonts run $50 to $150 on ebay. Here is a picture. Mike Dist. of Lazer Cutting Grid www.stl-laser.com
EDITED: 22 Dec 2006 by MIKEN

From:	UncleSteve	13 Oct 2006
To:	Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)	12 of 13

5087.12 In reply to 5087.6

Harvey and Barbara,

Having just gone through this exercise, fonts on eBay are in the $50-150 range and pantographs have been going for anywhere from $300 on up depending on the "extras".

$1300 is a reasonable price for a floor model similar the picture posted IF it doesn't require shipping expense, has a nice variety of cutters and fonts and is REALLY only 7-10 years old. Remember, these models have been around for over 25 years.

I doubt you will run into these problems, but look for rust/corrosion on the screw drives to adjust the jaws and raise and lower the spindle.

If it is drag only, the price is high.

One last heads up..... if you REALLY want to get into pantograph work and you don't need all that extra depth of a floor model, you can cut in half what they are asking and still do an awful lot of items with a table top model. The type is the same and the smaller unit is "portable" where you can put it away if you want to in between jobs.

Determine what items you will use it for and then you can make a more informed decision.

"Don't believe everything you think!"

EDITED: 13 Oct 2006 by UNCLESTEVE