Folder Digital Imaging/Dye SubKiln Fired Decal Systems


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 From:  Stunt Engraver (DGL)
 To:  Ron (MANWILRC) 
5119.1 
Ron,

Since Ernie's question concerning "Kiln Fired Decal Forums" didn't generate an answer, I'm hoping that you, time permitted, can bring us up to speed on how the technology has evolved, since its earlier stages.

This thread is meant more for the technical aspects, than a sales pitch, although we'd like to know, in round numbers, what a system for the creation of Kiln Fired Decals (KFD) costs, in terms of the printers, consumables etc.

Alternatively, if you have a web site, explaining those details, we'd appreciate a url.

Thank you,

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA

 

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 From:  Ron (MANWILRC)
 To:  ALL
5119.2 In reply to 5119.1 

I had hoped Ernie would call me to discuss in detail. Very difficult to write a helpful answer in a short space.

First, on the business front, Dave Vernon of Lip Chip Solutions and I have been in discussion regarding a business alliance for 6 - 9 months and are about at the signing stage. Dave will be the distribution point for system sales and support to those companies/people who currently use sublimation as a primary ceramic imaging technique. We are in the process of renewing the Enduring Images web-site to show more info on the system and our alliances with MZ Toner Technologies and Lip Chip Solutions.

As for the evolution of the technology it's a three year story - color calibration techniques, transitions to more reliable and far higher quality printing equipment as well as substantial improvements to the chemistry set have resulted in a commercial system capable of images that rival "out of the oven" sublimation and far exceed sublimation in durability. The techical details of the improvements are proprietary but part of our system training. I have sold one system to a sublimation tile decorator and Dave and I believe there is great advantage in the system to ceramic decorators using sublimation. It is not necessarily a repalcement but it will expand the market opportunity into end uses requiring true commercial ceramic performance - counter tops, back splashes, outdoor tile instalations, swimming pools etc. It can also open new markets - custom tableware and others - to those with an interest in pursuing them.

Dave and I have discussed the value in a "kiln fired decal" forum and as the use of the system grows we will launch one.

I'm not sure if this answer hits the mark but both Dave and I are happy to discuss any questions in far greater detail.

Thanks for the interest.

Ron

R.C.Manwiller
 

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 From:  Stunt Engraver (DGL)
 To:  Ron (MANWILRC) 
5119.3 In reply to 5119.2 
Thank you Ron.

That's a good start.

What about photographic reproduction? What kind of resolution can be achieved?

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA

 

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 From:  Geezer (ERNIE)
 To:  Ron (MANWILRC) 
5119.4 In reply to 5119.2 

Ron

"custom tableware"

Does the tableware meet "food safe" requirements?

How well do your decals duplicate "flesh tones"?

When will we see a pricing schedule for decals?

Will you be providing "firing schedules" as part of the training?

What's the cost of a system?

What's the cost of consumables?

Ernie

Never Stop Learning
 

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 From:  Ron (MANWILRC)
 To:  ALL
5119.5 In reply to 5119.3 

Print resolution is 600 dpi which is 2x (min) the resolution of Cromalin Art and screen printed ceramic decals.

Ron

R.C.Manwiller
 

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 From:  Ron (MANWILRC)
 To:  ALL
5119.6 In reply to 5119.4 

Yes decorated tableware meets FDA food safety standards depending on the whiteware used. The combination has to be tested so if you go into this I can offer advice on what we've tested and what you would need to test if you have a particular whiteware you want to use.

Our primary color target for most of the last three years has been flesh tones so we have very good color calibrations for that and the system delivers excellent flesh tones.

If you have an interest in purchasing a system I will be happy to send you a proposal based on your particular situation. Let's take that conversation off line.

We still make decals for firing on porcelain but we do not make decals for "low fire" ceramic bisque used in a paint your own pottery studio. But, making decals is not something I want to do in volume. If you have a specific requirement and need help I am happy to oblige but I do not want to be in that business as a commercial supplier.

Consumables cost about 3 cents per square inch of printed decal which includes toner, decal paper and transfer film. Your decal cost to decorate a 6 x 6 tile is about $1.00 or about the same as the cost of the tile.

Ron

R.C.Manwiller
 

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 From:  spudislander (WILLM)
 To:  Ron (MANWILRC) 
5119.7 In reply to 5119.6 

Hi Ron,

I was in contact with you and several competitors a couple of years ago regarding the system. Our conclusion at that time was that the technology was still in its infancy. The samples we received (2 years ago from several suppliers) showed poor colour correction and gamut. It is exciting to hear about some of the advancements that have been made.

I have a few questions that I hope you can answer here.

Has the gamut been improved to the point where accurate colour rendition with an approriate ICC profile is accomplishable?

Can you post a tile imaged with one of the industry test photos for comparison?

Is the technology capable of producing decals for firing onto glass?

What print systems are now being used and what maintenance issues and longevity can be expected at what volumes of printing?

Thanks,

Will Mallette

 

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 From:  Ron (MANWILRC)
 To:  spudislander (WILLM) 
5119.8 In reply to 5119.7 

Greetings Will! I suspect you have more questions than this. It is always easier to discuss in person so please feel free to call me and we can explore all of this in great detail 303-278-8868. The chemistry improvements are as significant as the equipment improvements. Short answers to your questions -

Yes

The digital rendition on your computer screen won't tell you what you want to know. The answer is that the total CMYK color pallette is printable and controllable. There is also a CR(red)YK color set that gives deep reds but is not food safe. We use both systems in house.

Yes but I cannot endorse it simply because I do not use it and have no experience with it.

Several are available but I sell the Canon CLC 1120, 1140 or 1180 printer. They are designed for 500,000+ copies and are very robust, reliable and durable. It also doubled the print resolution. That upgrade solved essentially all of the problems we encountered early on with the 900 series that we started with. After much experimentation we ultimately became quite happy with the 900 but most of those who tried that printer failed. We will teach you the preventive maintenance that will keep the system working for many years. It is unlikely you will "out-distance" the equipment.

Please feel free to call me. We haven't spoken in a while!

Ron

R.C.Manwiller
 
 
     
 

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