Who is right ... me or hubby??? - Engraving Etc. Forum

From:	joyce (JLADY)	20 Apr 2007
To:	ALL	1 of 26

6709.1

Opinions please.

One of the schools we always deal with (but not this department) ordered trophies online instead of coming to us.

For whatever reason they didn't come with plates so they call us today saying they need plates engraved for them by Monday. Not a big deal to me........but they spoke to my husband who quoted them $1.00 per plate (3 lines, name changes on each plate). We sublimate our plates and we normally include the price of engraving in the cost of our trophies.

I was quite upset with him for the $1 each...... his thinking is well we include free engraving on them for us so if we charged 3.00 (what I would have charged them) they would think....if the plate is 3.00 how much would the trophy have been and they would't come to us next year,

but my thinking was......

This is the price they pay for going cheap and not coming to us.....

What do you guys think??

From:	Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)	20 Apr 2007
To:	joyce (JLADY)	2 of 26

6709.2 In reply to 6709.1

If they bought the trophies elsewhere, then they are buying binder plates from you. Charge what you would for a binder plate.

It will show them why they got it so cheap.

Unless you would prefer to stop selling trophies and only sell the plates at that price.

Philadelphia, PA (Really Bensalem)

When you finally understand it completely... it changes.

From:	Cindy (CINDYM)	20 Apr 2007
To:	joyce (JLADY)	3 of 26

6709.3 In reply to 6709.1

I think you charge what the plate actually costs you to make, just as if they were a customer you'd never seen in the shop before.

And then do an outstanding job by having them completed on Monday (hey, did they notice it's Friday here??!) and have awards of the style they ordered online (except better looking) standing by for them to see what a great job you could do for them next time when they come in to pick up the plates. And make sure you mention that the plates are included in the price of your awards when they purchase from you, along with the great customer service that comes at no extra charge.

Just my opinion.
Cindy M

From:	Dave Jones (DAVERJ)	20 Apr 2007
To:	joyce (JLADY)	4 of 26

6709.4 In reply to 6709.1
quote: they would think....if the plate is 3.00 how much would the trophy have been and they would't come to us next year I think the reverse. If you don't charge enough for the plate then they'll try this again next year. If they realize that they didn't save so much money by buying online, since the true cost was several dollars higher than they thought, then maybe they'll buy the whole thing from you next time. If you sell the plates by themselves too cheap then next year they'll want to buy cheap trophies from the online source and add your low price plates to them. I think they should have to pay a premium for the plates by themselves. ...Dave Dave Jones Design

From:	Cody (BOBTNAILER)	20 Apr 2007
To:	joyce (JLADY)	5 of 26

6709.5 In reply to 6709.1

Fire your hubby.

>.<

Just kidding, of course.

Can you do the plates for $1 each and still make as much money as you need to on the deal?

I couldn't.

We charge $6 for plates by themselves, and haven't met with price resistance....yet. It's worth noting that the plate & engraving is included in all of our "base" prices.

From:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	20 Apr 2007
To:	joyce (JLADY)	6 of 26

6709.6 In reply to 6709.1

Joyce,

Let me answer your question with a question. If someone came to you and asked you to engrave or sublimate a plate of similar size, regardless of it's intended purpose, what would you charge?

I think Cody mentioned he charges $6...I charge $7.95 ( plate and engraving) ......

So I personally think you should charge what you would for a simple plate..and if you are only charging $3.00, I think you might be leaving a LOT of money on the table...

When the come for the plates on Monday, do as has been suggested have a sample of YOUR work in plain site.....priced with the plate and engraving....then when they mention about buying it on line, ask them how much it cost in freight.....(here the frieght is a killer)

Just my two cents. Want change?

From:	JHayes55	20 Apr 2007
To:	joyce (JLADY)	7 of 26

6709.7 In reply to 6709.1

Joyce - I would not go cheap, your husband is wrong in this case. I think you have been given some solid advice thus far.

We get a lot of requests for tags to be placed on all sorts of items. We charge as much or more in most case than anyone who has responded thus far. Those little single or small bunches of tags still take time to setup, run and package and slow production on larger orders. We charge a fair price for our time and materials, we have not met with any resistance on prices of our tags.

I believe the most important thing to do is start a conversation as to why the school ordered over the net instead of from you. It's important to do this in a proper tone and timing, be non-confrontational in your discussion, be sincere. What you may learn can be of more value than the order would have been.

Joe

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	20 Apr 2007
To:	LaZerDude (C_BURKE)	9 of 26

6709.9 In reply to 6709.6
Chuck, It's not only freight, to consider when buying trophies. If individual names are involved, accuracy in spelling becomes a major issue. What about misspellings? Will the majority of plates arrive accurately engraved? If not, will the company who originally provided the plates stand behind their work and replace them expediently? Mistakes happen and people are generally very forgiving, but what if an unbreakable pattern emerges? Time for another true story. :-) There's a SoCal trophy company who had an annual account producing AYSO soccer trophies. I say "had" because one day that account went away. Were the trophies too expensive? No, in fact they were so inexpensive, you'd think a person would be crazy to switch vendors. Here's what happened. These trophies came with a guarantee. It was a guarantee that, every year, there would be an inordinate number of misspellings. One day, the award supplier noticed, the annual soccer award order hadn't been placed. He calls the organization and says, "It's that time of year again. Just want to make sure we have enough materials on-hand and enough time to finish your order." "Well, we decided to go with another vendor this year." said the person on the other end of the phone. The spurned award dealer says, "Hey, if you got a better price, I can beat it. I want to keep you as a customer." The ex-customer says, "Your price was fine, in fact we're paying more this year. It's the spelling mistakes. Every year, there are so many mistakes that we just don't want to go through that again." "But, I always make good on them!" says the incredulous encrypter of names. "That's the problem. We're tired of you having to make good on the mistakes. We want to pick up the awards, hand them out at the event and not have to think about awards again until next year." was the reply. (That's the story I was told, through the new supplier of the awards, as recounted by the unhappy soccer team dad.) My advice to Joyce and Mike is, don't let people treat your busines as a Chinese take-out menu. If they want to place an entire trophy order, including engraving, make a fair deal. If they want to buy trophies elsewhere and expect your engraving prices to be in line with "Low-Ball, Inc." disappoint them, by charging your standard rates, which may be too low, as is. Just make sure the names are spelled correctly. :-) David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA
EDITED: 20 Apr 2007 by DGL

From:	Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)	21 Apr 2007
To:	ALL	12 of 26

6709.12

Here's an Idea
Why not do the plates for free!!!

Explain to the customer that due to them being such good supporters , we will susidize these plates on a one off basis as a gesture of goodwill despite the fact we would normally charge $8 for em (you can inflate this a little) and the fact its putting us under pressure they will get them FREE!!

You have told em it's a one off , so no more freebies
you have established a price they will pay for individual plates and not given em sticker shock - they arent actually paying
You have made em feel slightly guilty about not buying from you
You have left the impression of graciousness , helpfulness and no bitterness.
You show a large measure of professionalism and generate huge goodwill from your client , he will in all likelyhood give you great word of mouth advertising

If They decline yoyur offer , they will most likely say "charge us the normal fee" - which was of course , $8 :)

At any rate, I think doing them free could have potential benfits exceeding $3 or $9.
In fact , at the $3 level , it's such a paltry amount , when they collect , I would give it to em free with the same story as above.
You really come out smelling like roses!

EDITED: 21 Apr 2007 by RODNEY_GOLD

From:	Dixie2	21 Apr 2007
To:	joyce (JLADY)	13 of 26

6709.13 In reply to 6709.10

Joyce..

I have a school here that does all their business with me.. Well, last year, they got a new Drama teacher, and by the time I went to meet her, she had already ordered her awards either online or through a catalog...

She ordered them in November.. they didn't get to her until April...

All the plates were misspelled..

She had to come in here and get them all retagged. ( I charged her 3.00 per plate.. we usually charge 5.00-6.00)

After seeing our work, and our willingness to help her out of a bind, she promised to come in here this year and buy her awards...

She came in this past Friday and ordered $600.00 worth of awards..

I think your husband should've charged the full amount.. although I'm sure they will come to you next year for the awards...

Don't these men ever learn? ;-)

Dixie

From:	Cody (BOBTNAILER)	21 Apr 2007
To:	Dixie2	15 of 26

6709.15 In reply to 6709.13
quote: Don't these men ever learn? Some of us do. I have to admit that I've done the same thing (or worse) that Joyce's husband did. It was my wife that set me straight. It took some time for me to NOT be nervous about charging what we had to make on any given job. ------------------------- In giving a little thought to Rodney's last post, I might tend to agree with him. The $1 per plate price is, in fact, paltry....and practically insulting (won't even pay for your time). I might rather donate them this time around, with a sales pitch about next year. Dunno....I'll have to give that one more thought. ------------------------- I've told the story here about the soccer mom that came in summer-before-last to get trophy pricing. It's worth noting that we DO NOT have the best pricing in town on trophies, as it's not our core competency. However, I tried to low-ball the price, only making very little on each one. She ended up ordering them from an Internet site for less than we could have done them. No problem there. I found out long after the fact, that "Sulphur Springs" was misspelled on all 600 trophies. That particular soccer mom is no longer in charge of awards. :S

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	21 Apr 2007
To:	Cody (BOBTNAILER)	17 of 26

6709.17 In reply to 6709.15

Cody,

Another true story. :-)

A local trophy store decided, since they can't compete with the internet low-ballers (ILB), they'd employ them to do a large order of awards.

The order was supposed to include engraving. Shortly before the order was due, ILB informed them that, due to equipment problems, they would only be able to supply the trophies.

Since the engraving was going to be super-cheap, the fact that engraving wouldn't be included, didn't knock much off the invoice amount.

In the long run, it was probably a blessing in disguise.

This particular branch of ILB has distinguished themselves as the all-time champions of the A&E industry misspelling bee contest. :-)

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA

EDITED: 21 Apr 2007 by DGL

From:	Cody (BOBTNAILER)	21 Apr 2007
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	18 of 26

6709.18 In reply to 6709.17

LOL

You know, I might have to check into using ILB for some of our local stuff....and just supply the engraving in-house.

Outsourcing stuff like that doesn't require much on our end, other than a little time in securing/placing the order.

The real upside is that it will bring folks into the shop that wouldn't ordinarily come in. Hmmmmm...have to give that some serious thought before the leagues get into full swing.