While it may not be illegal, it borders on "fraud" since the company insists (in its law suit and to the distributors) that it does NOT sell to end users.

This is a key to the promo industry. The suppliers have all the customer information including their logos and it is too easy to casually send out a mailing featuring a "monthly special" without referring them to their original distributor.

I differentiate between blank and imprinted goods suppliers since the customer would still have to find someone to do the personalization or do it themselves.

The game is "what is an end user" and who is a distributor. If the order is large enough, a college could be a distributor since they buy many different items even though they have no company in the business... just a purchsing department and they don't do outside jobs, just for the school.

David,

I don't think the issue is in the words one selects to convey their opinion. I think it may even be safe to explain how one would react to whatever their opinion and experience has been with a given vendor. But as soon as you begin to rally the masses for a boycott, that is when things get a little cloudy. Finding a line drawn in the sand is very difficult on some issues, even after legal interpretations are made.

Steve,

The ASI industry isn't highly regulated at all.

I've only dabbled in the industry, but I can tell you, the times I've approached ASI suppliers for a product, I'm asked if I'm an ASI member.

I'm not.

Here's my ASI number:

Whatever the dollar amount of the purchase.

Flash the cash, and you'd be surprised by how quickly protocol, by laws and regulations fall by the wayside.

When dealing with ASI supliers, I've never found myself SOL.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA

David,

ASI does not have an exclusive agreement with suppliers. I do not consider it to be an ASI industry, ASI is just an expensive aide to their member distributors.

The suppliers are free to deal with anyone that they wish and there are several different companies that provide services similar to those ASI provides. The one we use is SAGE. There are a few companies who will only deal with ASI members, but their numbers have dwindled to the point that it is no longer important.

It is true that there is a problem with some suppliers operating as both suppliers and distributors. Some do it directly in house and some set up special retail divisions. Some do it openly and others try to sneak it by.

Pete,

Something that is interesting about ASI is that they make a point to tell you that you are not an ASI "member", you are an ASI listed company. If I recall correctly, they even make it clear in their literature that you are not to say you are a member.

Yes, I seem to remember that. However, it has been many years since we have been a "member?". Probably a legal angle.

We have been with SAGE for a while and our relationship with them has been excellent. They have an extensive on line product database and one of the best credit card merchant account setups that we have seen. Also, none of the pressure to buy their services that we had with ASI. ASI has been losing ground for years. There was a time when they were about the only game in town, but that time has long since passed.

Pete,

I am evaluating product database search engines right now and have not hit SAGE yet. My initial problem with SAGE is that they do not support the MAC platform, therefore shutting out my two highest producing sales reps. They both have a graphic art background and live and die by the Mac.

I just can't see myself going back to ASI and their agressive marketing.

David,

Sage On-Line is the distributor app and it is windows only.

However, WebExpress is their webbased database store and it is cross platform. Anyone with an internet connection can access it.

Take a look at our WebExpress and you can get an idea of what it makes available. I should clarify - actually, WebExpress is only a simple page. You have to add the Webstore function for the database access. I believe Webstore was $395 per year. WebExpress is free, but really does not do anything for you.

http://www.awardmasters.com/promo/promo.html

This will bring you in on the Product Search page, not the homepage. Feel free to run searches and see what is available, you can't break anything (I hope).

Pete,

Thank you for the info. As I say, I'm just an ad spec dabbler.

I know of a company, that makes emblematic jewelry, which ASI "called" on working both sides of the street.

The solution? Start another company which sells retail.

Same company, same peolple, same product. Different name.

I guess ASI was satisfied to see an "appearance" of separation of wholesale and retail.

I'll have to add that one, to the increasing list of things I don't get :-)

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA

David,
I"m just getting back onto this thread in what little "down" time I have in Vegas.... How much of your gross income do your attribute to ad specialties?

Chuck
American Pacific Awards.

Chuck,

I operate my ad specialties as a different business from my engraving business. It is a whole separate corporation, with a few sales reps in different parts of the country. It is still a developing business in my eyes, although it is one that is developing nicely.

I don't see how anyone's numbers will relate to another's. You will only be as successful as the amount of time, effort and creativity you put into it. I would say that 70% of my gross sales are created by my sales reps. That is because they get out and beat the pavement. I'm locked into my little world here at the engraving shop and take the ad specialties business that comes my way through other means of marketing.

Bottom line, it is worth the effort and very low-risk.

David,
It has been awhile since I visited the idea of ad specialties, BUT in the April edition of A&E magazine, a "flyer" was included about SAGE. I checked out their website and it rekindled the idea.
In a previous post you had said......

....."If you want to get a feel for the industry you can sign your company up for a free UPIC number at www.the-upic.com. More and more ad specialty suppliers are accepting this number as confirmation that you are a legitimate reseller in the industry.

After you get your UPIC number, I would recommend that you contact www.distributorcentral.com to get signed up for their free services. Distributor Central is a product database that puts the responsibility of price and data maintenance on the supplier, where with ASI, the product information was entered by in-house staff. With the hundreds of thousands of products on the market there is no way that ASI can keep information current."

I have done the UPIC part. When I get the number approved, I'll go to the other website.

I'm becoming encouraged. Thanks for your help and support.

Chuck,

You are well on your way. The UPIC is always the first stumbling block. The door will be wide open.

Pete,
I have just gotten back into considering ad specialties as a diversification of American Pacific Awards.
On re-reading this thread, I found your post to Davd Takes with the link to your site.
I've done a couple of basic searches and am amazed at how low the prices are. Are you selling wholesale? Or are these prices your marked up prices? I'm just curious because they seem so low, and I would like to get a handle on whether I want to expand this way or not. Or am I just simply not in tune? ( Quite likely that is it. [insert laugh here])

Thanks Pete for all your helps and support.

We normally sell retail at the standard markups by the manufacturer. Some would refer to these as the ASI coded prices. Those are the prices listed on our Promotional Products website. Keep in mind that the base prices listed are usually for just a one color imprint in one location. There are most often additional charges for things such as screen charges, art charges, additional color runs, etc..

Our portion of the manufacturers retail list price is usually in the 40% to 50% range. We usually get around 20% of addtional charges like screen charges, art, or running charges. This amount is normally reasonable since in most cases we are only doing a layout, color separations, etc for our part.

We use the SAGE database for our products and the admin panel does provide you the ability to set the pricing in a number of different ways to suit your personal needs.

I highly recommend SAGE to anyone getting into promotional products. They have a very large product database and can even host your website for you if you wish. It is not a free service, but it works and in my opinion it is much more complete than any of the free services. In addtion, they are helpful and professional. They also have an excellent credit card merchant program.

Pete,
Thank you for your response. I appreciate it.
Have you tried www.distributorcentral.com? I have been looking there a bit today.
With SAGE, it is about $500.00 per year, ( seems reasonable to me ). Do you get enough with that amount to run and grow a business? Or do you need to pay more once you are a member?

Thanks

Chuck,
I have looked at the distributorcentral website. It appears that they have a very small product database at this time. The SAGE database is very complete.

SAGE offers a number of different programs. Without going back and looking it up (I may be wrong), the base membership is still $495 per year (I think it is only $395 if you use the CD version instead of the online version). This gives you online access to their database with detailed product and supplier information and complete search capability. It does not give your customer access - you would not want it to as it provides cost and profit information.

They offer what they call a "Webstore" which can be incorporated into your existing website or you can access it thru a URL to their server. This function is $395 per year, it is an option. This is the promotional product site you see if you go to our site at:

http://www.awardmasters.com/promo/promo.html

This site is designed for our customers use. They can place orders or request quotes there.

They offer several other functions, the only one of which we use is the credit card merchant program.

You can visit the SAGE website at www.sageworld.com for more details.

Pete,

If I am understanding you correctly, through SAGE, I could get their webstore, which is an ecommerce site, and take orders through MY website?
How much business do you get this way? Do the suppliers drop ship? Or do the supplies send the product to you and you deliver?
Enquiring minds want to know.
Could I call you sometime and talk about this more in depth? If I may, when would be the best time, so as to not be an inconvenience?

Thank you again for your help and support.

You can incorporate the Webstore into your site or run it on theirs. Orders and quotes are stored on their server and you receive and email notification to go out and pick up the info.

Most of our orders are thru the website. Most vendors will drop ship. There is some risk of vendors stealing your customers, but we have not had a real problem with that.

I forgot: Feel free to call me. There is never a time when I know I will not be busy, but if I can't talk I will just let you know.

We use Ad specialty items as part of our mix and are extremely pleased

We also offer ( since we're home based ) services to the trade outside our geography which is our #1 income producer... and as a result of this relationship were talked into offering ad specialties here on the treasure coast of Florida.

Remember there are asi people out there ordering awards and competing with the engravers market daily.. In fact oftentimes the most prestigious ( highest dollar ) awards are sold by ad specialty reps not necessarily by the engraving shops..

So to compete with your local asi reps may be a great thing..

I recommend all shop owners get out and visit their marketplace in person and see the need ... ( make a bungling presentation ) and then decide what works for them..

Sage ( www.qti.com ) has been our tool for 10+ years.. Requires no asi membership and all companies have accepted our credentials to purchase regardless of asi membership

Good Luck All..

Mike
( Cutting Edge ) www.gocutedge.com