Thoughts and Decisions - Engraving Etc. Forum

<body> <h1>Full Version: <a href="https://www.engravingetc.org:443/archive/index.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.48">Thoughts and Decisions</a></h1><a name="a3905_48"></a><p><b>From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.48">#48</a>]<br /> 29 May 2006<br /><b>To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.34">#34</a>] 29 May 2006</p> Brian,<br /> <br /> Sorry for the delay in responding to your post. I had the fortune of being able to spend a couple days out of town with my family to smell the roses, in more ways than one.<br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">What makes you feel that the site isn't useful the way it is right now? </div><br /> I'm the last person you want to ask to keep things status quo. That seems a bit boring and unproductive to me. I'm of the opinion that businesses are either moving forward or backward, but never on an even keel with the competition.<br /> <br /> Many here would agree with you that there is nothing wrong with the usefulness of the forum, but that really isn't the issue here. The issue is, can it become more and simply a part of something better for our businesses ultimately? My personal answer to that is yes, yes, yes! <span class="e_smile" title=":-)"><span class="e__">:-)</span> </span><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 29 May 2006 by DATAKES</p> <hr /><a name="a3905_49"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.49">#49</a>]<br /> 29 May 2006<br /><b>To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.48">#48</a>] 30 May 2006</p> <p>Hi David,</p> <p>No big deal on getting back....it's a holiday weekend <span class="e_wink" title=";)"><span class="e__">;)</span> </span></p> <p>......I had a great day. I played several pieces with a 20 piece brass group at a Revolutionary war vet's grave for an honorary service.....</p> <p>Back to the issue at hand.......</p> <p>I also believe in always moving forward, but not at the loss of something that's working well... That would be a terrible business decision don't you think?</p> <p>I guess what I am trying to say is that I believe that the idea of moving forward should be self supportive, not forced on the back of a forum that works extreemely well "as is".</p> <p>Why burden something successful with the risk of total if not substantial failure. If the idea is that great.....it should support itself.</p> <hr /><a name="a3905_50"></a><p><b>From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.50">#50</a>]<br /> 30 May 2006<br /><b>To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.49">#49</a>] 30 May 2006</p> <p>Brian,</p> <p>I don't think you and David L. are too far off on your opinions of where to go from here. Knowing what he knows now, he also sees the importance of maintaining what we have here. I know it will not be free, but at a very modest subscription rate, I think the privacy and credibility it adds to the forum will far outweigh the nonburdensome fee.</p> <p>I have conveyed to David in some private e-mails that I believe the website needs to stand on its own. I think he had come to that revelation himself and this is why you are seeing the two-tiered subscription being discussed here.</p> <hr /><a name="a3905_51"></a><p><b>From: Carl (CSEWELL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.51">#51</a>]<br /> 30 May 2006<br /><b>To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.50">#50</a>] 30 May 2006</p> Food for thought..... No disrespect intended.<br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">There are two kinds of fool.<br /> One says, "This is old, and therefore good." <br /> And one says, "This is new, and therefore better."</div><br /> <br /> <span class="e_shades" title="B-)"><span class="e__">B-)</span> </span><br /> <br /> (Fire Away!)<br /> <br /> I should have sent this to ALL rather than directed it David, but I didn't know how to change it after I posted it.<p class="edit_text">EDITED: 30 May 2006 by CSEWELL</p> <hr /><a name="a3905_52"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.52">#52</a>]<br /> 30 May 2006<br /><b>To: Carl (CSEWELL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.51">#51</a>] 30 May 2006</p> Carl,<br /> <br /> There is a third kind of fool.<br /> <br /> One who sees merit in both of those sentiments. <span class="e_smile" title=":-)"><span class="e__">:-)</span> </span> <hr /><a name="a3905_53"></a><p><b>From: Carl (CSEWELL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.53">#53</a>]<br /> 30 May 2006<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.52">#52</a>] 30 May 2006</p> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">There is a third kind of fool.<br /> One who sees merit in both of those sentiments.</div><br /> <br /> I'm guilty as charged! <br /> <br /> And pessimists have been defined as optimists with experience. <hr /><a name="a3905_54"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.54">#54</a>]<br /> 30 May 2006<br /><b>To: Carl (CSEWELL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.53">#53</a>] 30 May 2006</p> <span class="e_smile" title=":-)"><span class="e__">:-)</span> </span> <hr /><a name="a3905_55"></a><p><b>From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.55">#55</a>]<br /> 30 May 2006<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> <p>You can't carry on having circular discussions about this , the window of opportunity is gone now.</p> <p>Here's a plan</p> <p>Why not just call for donations to help keep this site running as is - lots of us will oblige - I would<br /> Then set up your Educational site as a stand alone and punt the hell out of here <br /> I doubt there is one person who would object to you using this site mostly being the fruit of YOUR labours , to punt a site beneficial to all and that can make you a living and satisfy your need to go further than this site.<br /> When you got something good , offer it and we will bite.<br /> You then have the best of both worlds , an active free partially subsided site and a nice target audience and a hugely better chance of success, win win for all.</p><hr /><a name="a3905_56"></a><p><b>From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.56">#56</a>]<br /> 30 May 2006<br /><b>To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.55">#55</a>] 30 May 2006</p> <p>That is close to the plan at the moment, with one exception.</p> <p>The virtually free site needs to cover its costs and over a few years pay back the outlay of the site from the past, (I think it is), seven years. The $3 per month will hopefully do that and leave a bit for improvements. (It may take a few years to pay back the financial investment, hopefully not that long.)</p> <p>When I say payback and cover the costs I include a little more than just the financial investment. A far below minimum wage payment for the time to organize things and keep them that is not an unheard of possibility. Some people will not like this aspect, but very few will labor and allow that labor of love to badly impact their marginal income. Why should David, in my opinion?</p> <p>This is far from an adversarial post to you, we are in very close agreement at this moment.</p> <hr /><a name="a3905_57"></a><p><b>From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.57">#57</a>]<br /> 30 May 2006<br /><b>To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.56">#56</a>] 30 May 2006</p> <p>Harvey,</p> <p>I doubt very much that David is looking at it like you portray, although I would be the last person opposed to the concept of reimbursing him for his past out-of-pocket expenses.</p> <p>David will likely not be pocketing much money any time soon, especially with the investment required for video equipment, programming, etc. I imagine he will be investing plenty of his free time in the effort as well.</p><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 30 May 2006 by DATAKES</p> <hr /><a name="a3905_58"></a><p><b>From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.58">#58</a>]<br /> 30 May 2006<br /><b>To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.57">#57</a>] 30 May 2006</p> I know he is resisting payback for outlays strenuously, but I am fighting him continuously. He has laid out thousands of dollars from what I know about and I believe I may wear him down. I do not want him to have an additional excuse for taking nothing in reimbursement. That has been our biggest disagreement so far. I did not plan on saying the above publicly, but at this time you gave me little choice. <hr /><a name="a3905_59"></a><p><b>From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.59">#59</a>]<br /> 30 May 2006<br /><b>To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.56">#56</a>] 31 May 2006</p> <p>Harvey , the donations to the site will defray pressing expenses and the target audience feeding the value add ons or new site will more than compensate for any income lost/cost of maintaining this site.<br /> Write off past costs as the cost of building this site up to feed the new one.</p><hr /><a name="a3905_60"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.60">#60</a>]<br /> 31 May 2006<br /><b>To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.59">#59</a>] 31 May 2006</p> <p>Rodney,</p> <p>As Harvey said, we're basically in agreement, with the approach you're suggesting.</p> <p>The added features are ambitious and will take time (some, more than others) to develop.</p> <p>Where we're not quite coming together, is on the issue of donations vs. a nominal fee.</p><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 31 May 2006 by DGL</p> <hr /><a name="a3905_61"></a><p><b>From: sprinter</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.61">#61</a>]<br /> 31 May 2006<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.60">#60</a>] 31 May 2006</p> <p>David,</p> <p>For your video productions have you looked at Camtasia 3.1? It now has live video from a video camera input. I've been playing with the demo version and was so impressed I ordered the CD version. The full version is $300.</p> <hr /><a name="a3905_62"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.62">#62</a>]<br /> 31 May 2006<br /><b>To: sprinter</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.61">#61</a>] 31 May 2006</p> Ken,<br /> <br /> I've only recently become aware of some of the technology we can bring to bear, which is incrediby exciting.<br /> <br /> My head's exploding with ideas, based on the little bit I know.<br /> <br /> I knew of Camtasia, for flash tutorials, but I'll definitely look into the video aspect.<br /> <br /> Thanks for the heads up. <span class="e_smile" title=":-)"><span class="e__">:-)</span> </span> <hr /><a name="a3905_63"></a><p><b>From: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.63">#63</a>]<br /> 31 May 2006<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">If you would have said that you want to start this new business venture where you do not have the moneys to get it off the ground properly and you need investors then you might of got people to want to invest in the new site. At that point you would need to give your investors something for their money (dividends). All others who wanted to join the site would have to pay and then those moneys would then cover cost and help pay for those dividends.</div>I'm getting caught up again, and wanted to comment on this. More specifically test the accuracy of my impression.<br /> <br /> The investors are the forum members. Instead of a formal business plan where everything is on paper, the forum was set up out of pocket as a limited free sample. Now the sample time is coming to an end; membership fees will be the investment and expanded content the dividends. <br /> <br /> Have I been reading the situation incorrectly since I first joined?<br /> <br /> P.S. I like the new twist of basic and expanded content levels. Curious how "upgrades" will be handled. <hr /><a name="a3905_64"></a><p><b>From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.64">#64</a>]<br /> 31 May 2006<br /><b>To: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.63">#63</a>] 31 May 2006</p> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">P.S. I like the new twist of basic and expanded content levels. Curious how "upgrades" will be handled. </div><br /> <br /> Could you be a little more definitive about what you mean by 'upgrades'? I am a bit unsure about what you specifically mean. <hr /><a name="a3905_65"></a><p><b>From: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.65">#65</a>]<br /> 31 May 2006<br /><b>To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.64">#64</a>] 31 May 2006</p> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">Could you be a little more definitive about what you mean by 'upgrades'? I am a bit unsure about what you specifically mean.</div>If someone starts off with basic service then wants to step up to the full offering. Will they pay the prorated difference for the time remaining in the current subscription? If the initial membership was obtained during an initial promotional time period will those prices or the current ones be used? If initial members will have any ongoing benefit will it be available to members at both levels? <br /> <br /> The questions above are more for thinking than an immediate answer. <hr /><a name="a3905_66"></a><p><b>From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.66">#66</a>]<br /> 31 May 2006<br /><b>To: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.65">#65</a>] 31 May 2006</p> <p>I'm glad you clarified that. I had a totally different take on what you said. I thought you were referring to the 'upgrades' that would be in the premium site.</p> <p>I will leave this one for David to answer as to how that will be handled. It may also be software related capabilities. Having this question in advance may help to get it done more flawlessly.</p> <hr /><a name="a3905_67"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.67">#67</a>]<br /> 31 May 2006<br /><b>To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.66">#66</a>] 31 May 2006</p> Harvey,<br /> <br /> I'm all for doing whatever it takes to keep things simple.<br /> <br /> Even though John Fish is extremely capable, of setting things up whichever way we want, I don't want to present him, or our members, with the equivalent of "Chinese Algebra."<br /> <br /> Thinking out loud:<br /> <br /> It could be the best approach is to have one membership level (forum, as-is) and make the "Whistles and Bells" web site, a place where people can visit and order "products" as they choose. <hr /><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="EE" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="3905.68" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="submit1" class="button" value="Keep reading…" /></form><p align="center">Show messages:  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.1">1-7</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.8">8-27</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.28">28-47</a>  48-67  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.68">68-87</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3905.88">88-98</a></p> <h4><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=EE">Back to thread list</a> | <a href="llogout.php?webtag=EE">Login</a></h4> <h6>© 2025 <a href="http://www.beehiveforum.net/" target="_blank">Project Beehive Forum</a></h6> </body>