Pricing Correctly / YAG vs CO2 - Engraving Etc. Forum

<body> <h1>Full Version: <a href="https://www.engravingetc.org:443/archive/index.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.6">Pricing Correctly / YAG vs CO2</a></h1><a name="a975_6"></a><p><b>From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.6">#6</a>]<br /> 18 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Cindy (CINDYM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.5">#5</a>] 21 Mar 2005</p> <p>A Nd YAG galvo laser with a 200 x 200 marking field can do that job in seconds , we are looking into a 50 watt pumped diode laser with a 140mm x 140 mm marking field for high volume production work.<br /> The way these lasers work with flat field lenses and galvo driven mirrors make them extremely quick , up to 300 characters per second. (quoted speeds are around 7 meters a second on some of these machines) I saw a uncoated zippo being engraved directly into the stianless steel with a complex logo almost over the full area of the lighter in under 3 seconds - took longer to put the thing in and take it out than engrave.<br /> Perhaps they had a machine like this or similar?</p><hr /><a name="a975_7"></a><p><b>From: rich (SPYDER62)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.7">#7</a>]<br /> 18 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Cindy (CINDYM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.1">#1</a>] 21 Mar 2005</p> I ran into the same thing the other day. Went to a Tile store to see what intrest I could get in Lasered Marble. They liked what I had but asked about painting them. I told them it can be done but I have not done any . They then showed me a card for a local out fit that gave them a 3 x 3 foot painted Eagle and wanted 600 for it, Thats 67 for each tile , to which I told them good for them but I like to eat at times.<br /> <hr /><a name="a975_8"></a><p><b>From: Gary (GLSHOE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.8">#8</a>]<br /> 18 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Cindy (CINDYM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.5">#5</a>] 21 Mar 2005</p> <p>HI Cindy</p> <p>It wasn't this guy in New Jersey. I would be in the ballpark of your pricing. My pricing would be around 14.25 per piece. I'm still learning the business, and maybe a novice but I'm not giving anything away. Worked too hard to get the money to have what I have.</p> <p>Gary<br /> When Spirits Dance</p><hr /><a name="a975_9"></a><p><b>From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.9">#9</a>]<br /> 18 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.6">#6</a>] 18 Mar 2005</p> <p>Rodney,</p> <p>I would agree with your concept about the YAG laser. I just can't see someone with a CO2 missing the price mark by this much.</p> <hr /><a name="a975_10"></a><p><b>From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.10">#10</a>]<br /> 18 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Cindy (CINDYM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.1">#1</a>] 21 Mar 2005</p> <p>Cindy,</p> <p>You may want to find someone in your area that has a larger field YAG Laser who may likely do the job for $3 - $3.50. Price the job at $5.00 and give them some food for thought.</p> <hr /><a name="a975_11"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.11">#11</a>]<br /> 19 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.6">#6</a>] 19 Mar 2005</p> <p>Rodney,</p> <p>The YAG machines are definitely quick. A while back, I had a job consisting of 400 wooden sandtimers. Running a logo (about 2" high) on a (Flying Optics) CO2 machine took about 2.5 min. each.</p> <p>It was during the holiday season and I figured the job would take about 33 hours. Time that I just didn't have.</p> <p>I farmed the job out to Jimani (under Job Shops in Links section) and they had the job finished within a matter of several (don't know how many) hours.</p> <p>I dropped by to OK the setup and watched a few pieces being done.</p> <p>What took 2.5 min. on the CO2, took MAYBE 5 sec. (maybe less) on the YAG (steered beam) system.</p> <p>David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri<br /> DGL Engraving<br /> Port Hueneme, CA</p><hr /><a name="a975_12"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.12">#12</a>]<br /> 19 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.10">#10</a>] 19 Mar 2005</p> <p>David,</p> <p>The "field" on a YAG system isn't very big. Maybe 5.5 x 5.5 inches.</p> <p>Don't know if there are larger field machines out there.</p> <p>David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri<br /> DGL Engraving<br /> Port Hueneme, CA</p><hr /><a name="a975_13"></a><p><b>From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.13">#13</a>]<br /> 19 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.12">#12</a>] 19 Mar 2005</p> <p>David,</p> <p>If memory serves me right (a frightening thought), there are some larger field machines now. Some of them have the moving optics like most C02's, which wouldn't save a person any time on a job, and others have the steered optics that have a slightly larger field. I am sure I will have to do some digging to verify this .</p> <hr /><a name="a975_14"></a><p><b>From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.14">#14</a>]<br /> 19 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.13">#13</a>] 19 Mar 2005</p> <p>As the field size increases , the spot size does so too.<br /> Max field sizes are 8"x 8", practically a 140mm or a 100mm field size is as far as you want to go.</p> <p>Theres a guy here who bought a YAG which works the same as our machines ( xy tables) Waste of time as far as i'm concerned cos there is very little he can do that I can't and the metal marking is not nice and black like when we use cerdec , its a sort of dirty brown.<br /> I do a ton of promotional item branding tho , thats why we are looking into the fibre or pumped diode YAG , sometimes qtys run into the multiple 1000's and its taking way too long on our Co2's.<br /> Probably gonna get a machine from China , they quite reasonable and pretty well made these days , for $25k you get a decent unit. GCC have a Galvo Co2 and YAG in their line up , but theirs are a little too pricey for us - the local importers are adding on hefty margins.</p><hr /><a name="a975_15"></a><p><b>From: Jim (JEARMAN)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.15">#15</a>]<br /> 19 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.14">#14</a>] 19 Mar 2005</p> <p>5X5 inch field sizes are typical for steered beam YAG lasers but 12 X 12 field sizes are available by changing lenses. It is absolutely true that spot size grows as field size grows but the trick is to get a YAG laser with lots of "low order mode" power(something you don't need to know or worry about with CO2 lasers). Not all YAGs are created equal but each manufacturer wantsyou to think that their laser is the best thing since sliced bread. Do your homework before you spend your money.</p> <p>The guy is NJ most likely had a steered beam YAG which is the perfect tool for engraving anodized aluminum. Flying optics systems (YAG or CO2) can't compete with the speed or quality. The only issues with YAG markers are the price and the field size.</p> <p>Jim</p> <hr /><a name="a975_16"></a><p><b>From: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.16">#16</a>]<br /> 19 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Jim (JEARMAN)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.15">#15</a>] 19 Mar 2005</p> I understand a YAG can engrave some materials a CO2 system can't. Is the opposite also true?<br /> <hr /><a name="a975_17"></a><p><b>From: Jim (JEARMAN)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.17">#17</a>]<br /> 19 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.16">#16</a>] 19 Mar 2005</p> <p>Yes</p> <p>Jim</p> <hr /><a name="a975_18"></a><p><b>From: Cindy (CINDYM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.18">#18</a>]<br /> 21 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.10">#10</a>] 21 Mar 2005</p> <p>If there is anyone in Oregon with a YAG laser I have yet to meet them. None I know of within 200 miles. From what I'm reading here, the 5" would be fine, but the 8" would push the limits of a YAG - is that right?<br /> I don't know if a YAG laser is what the NJ place is using. They are not very common. I would doubt it in this area, but perhaps that area has the industrial capacity to make one worth having.<br /> It is my understanding that a YAG laser and a regular laser are not interchangable in regards to what they would be used for - you would buy the YAG for specific uses and the other for other specific uses - am I right?<br /> Cindy</p><hr /><a name="a975_19"></a><p><b>From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.19">#19</a>]<br /> 21 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Cindy (CINDYM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.18">#18</a>] 21 Mar 2005</p> <p>To my understanding, (what I have heard and not necessarily accurate), the YAG cannot do glass, and the CO2 cannot cut metals, (which the YAG can). Other than that it is machine design that makes the difference.</p> <p> </p> <hr /><a name="a975_20"></a><p><b>From: Cindy (CINDYM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.20">#20</a>]<br /> 21 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.19">#19</a>] 21 Mar 2005</p> <p>And it is the YAG that does the inside of the acrylics where you see the detailed art designs isn't it? Which a regular laser can not do if I remember that right.</p> <p>Cindy</p><hr /><a name="a975_21"></a><p><b>From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.21">#21</a>]<br /> 21 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Cindy (CINDYM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.20">#20</a>] 22 Mar 2005</p> <p>The claim is that is a dual beam engraver. True or not, who knows?</p> <p>The system must be fast for the price that I see it selling for. YAG would make sense because no matter what you do with a CO2, the light is stopped at the surface by absorption.</p> <p> </p> <hr /><a name="a975_22"></a><p><b>From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.22">#22</a>]<br /> 21 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Cindy (CINDYM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.5">#5</a>] 22 Mar 2005</p> <p>Cindy,</p> <p> As you mentioned, perhaps they are not comparing apples to apple. There is a method of doing what you are talking about using a silkscreen process of some sort. I have no idea what the cost comparison between silkscreening industrial panels or lasering them would be, but maybe that is the reason for the disparagy (sp?)</p> <p> On another note, DON'T sell yourself, your service or your quality short. Sometimes ( I learned this from my other business) it is simply better to walk away. </p> <p> Good luck. I wish I could be of more help.</p> <p> </p> <hr /><a name="a975_23"></a><p><b>From: laserman (MIKEMAC)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.23">#23</a>]<br /> 21 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.12">#12</a>] 21 Mar 2005</p> <p>David,</p> <p>Replying to this a little late, However I just wanted to let everyone know that ULS has a YAG system with an 18x32 field size. It is set-up like the Co2's with flying optics and is not as fast as the steered optics or galvo heads. But it has a definite niche that it fills.</p> <p>The one thing that people don't factor into speed is the manual labor of changing the parts that are engraved or marked. By utilizing the large field and the 65+ Inches per second marking speed your actual labor costs are probably less.</p> <p>All you do is load and unload a tray with 100 pcs. Versus one at a time every 5 seconds.</p> <p>Depending on the quantity of parts the cost to operate the small field Yag system would probably be more that the cost to operate the large field. Unless you have employees that only get paid $5.00 per HR.</p> <p>The other plus with a large field Yag is "Large Parts". We have a lot of aerospace companies using our systems for there machine panels.<br /> and other larger parts that would be difficult to do on the small field Yags.</p> <p>With all this said I believe there is a definite niche for these systems and for the price you pay for the small field Yag markers you can have a large field Yag marker</p> <hr /><a name="a975_24"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.24">#24</a>]<br /> 21 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: laserman (MIKEMAC)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.23">#23</a>] 21 Mar 2005</p> <p>Mike,</p> <p>The good point you make, with respect to speed, is being able to walk away from a machine, while it engraves (whatever number of pieces) is particulalry useful to shops with a limited number of people.</p> <p>Being a one-man-band myself, I often feel like a short order cook.</p> <p>If the workflow is choreographed properly, it's possible to have multiple machines running, including printers for sublimation, UV curing unit for epoxy doming etc., etc. with the final result being an incredible amount of work getting done, by one person.</p> <p>Machines set up with long running times can (sounds strange) be better than those which run at the speed of sound, but require constant attention.</p> <p>In some cases = Speed Kills :-)</p> <p>David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri<br /> DGL Engraving<br /> Port Hueneme, CA</p><hr /><a name="a975_25"></a><p><b>From: Jim (JEARMAN)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.25">#25</a>]<br /> 21 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.24">#24</a>] 21 Mar 2005</p> <p>David,</p> <p>Although I understand the "one man band" problem, I would be hard pressed to accept the argument that less speed translates to higher thru-put and therefore more $$/hour.</p> <p>Using Laserman's example of 100 pieces loaded into a fixture onto a flying optics system vs: a 5 second cycle time per piece on a steered beam system:<br /> Wood pens might be a good example of such a job. I assume that the bed of a flying optics marker could accept a fixture containing 100 wooden pens to be decorated with a logo. A 5 second cycle time might be a pretty good estimate for a steered beam system to mark a wood pen with a 1/4 to 3/8 inch high logo: 3 seconds of mark time and 2 seconds of unload/load time for a new pen. That translates to 12 pens a minute or 720 pens per hour on a steered beam marker. Is this realistic? Well, I've actually done it myself. But I don't expect my marker operators to work at the same pace as the owner of the company so I tone down my expectations from them. On this type of job I would realisticly expect to see 500 pens per hour and a run of 2000 pens should be finished in 4 hours. I would bid the job on that basis and make my margins.<br /> Since I have no actual hands on experience with flying optics systems I must defer to the experts with this question: For something like wooden pens with a 1/4 to 3/8 inch high logo, is 500 parts an hour an achievable thru-put and would one expect a 2000 piece run to be completed in 4 hours assuming the machine was attended those entire 4 hours.</p> <p>An often ignored benefit or one at a time, high speed parts marking is that I don't have to have fixtures made to hold 100 or so parts for every item that comes into our shop for engraving.</p> <p>One might argue that 2000 pieces is not a typical sized order and I would respond by saying that the argument for high speed, one part at a time marking becomes even more compelling for small runs of parts.</p> <p>I really don't know what are typical per hour thruputs for small parts on flying optics laser systems and would be interested in feedback.</p> <hr /><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="EE" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="975.26" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="submit1" class="button" value="Keep reading…" /></form><p align="center">Show messages:  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.1">1-5</a>  6-25  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.26">26-45</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.46">46-65</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=975.66">66-78</a></p> <h4><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=EE">Back to thread list</a> | <a href="llogout.php?webtag=EE">Login</a></h4> <h6>© 2025 <a href="http://www.beehiveforum.net/" target="_blank">Project Beehive Forum</a></h6> </body>